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00:00:01 - Introductions

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Partial Transcript: "Jay Siegel is here to talk to us about his life and times at Antioch and especially his activism and experience with ACRE known as the Antioch Committee for Racial Equality."

Segment Synopsis: Jay Siegel born in L.A. Los Angeles 1941. Interviewed by Brooke Brian.

Here he describes his early life growing up in LA, then later San Francisco immediately after the war, what it was like to be raised by ardent communists under McCarthyism, his mothers involvement in the Communist party, and his fathers progressive activism. He sites his early working class background for the development of his personality even if later in life his parents moved higher up on the class strata.

Keywords: Anti-communism; McCarthyism; Unionization

Subjects: Anti-Communist movements; McCarthyism; Post-War America; Red-Scare

00:05:01 - Jay's decision to attend Antioch over Stanford.

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Partial Transcript: "My dad very much wanted me to go to Stanford. Which Stanford was very much a gentleman's C school."

"First we missed the campus, we were driving from Pennsylvania, my parents taught at Penn state. We got to Yellow Springs and our car roared right through and when we went out the other side we were like "hey where was the college? we missed it!" At that time there was just one little sign that said "Antioch College" at the street where it met 68. So my first time there I knew this was a place that I wanted to go."

Segment Synopsis: Jay describes his decision to attend Antioch over Stanford, even if it was against his fathers wishes, and he had already been accepted to Stanford.

Keywords: Antioch; Penn State; Stanford

Subjects: Antioch; Yellow Springs; Young Adulthood

GPS: Link to map
Map Coordinates: Latitude: 39° 48' 3.59
00:07:11 - The Civil Defense Drills

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Partial Transcript: "In 1957 you did Civil Defense Drills, where if the sirens would go off, and you would go home. The idea is you would practice getting home if there was a nuclear attack. So it was a Civil defense, a part of the Civil Defense Drill and of course California, my group all went to the beach for a party. We didn't go home. We went to the beach for a typical California beach Party."

Segment Synopsis: Jay explains his first experience with civil disobedience and it's relation to an early crush.

Keywords: Civil Defense Drills; Nuclear attack; Protest; Sit-ins

Subjects: Activism; Civil Defense Drills; Coldwar; Nuclear War; Redscare

00:08:39 - Notice that this pathway cuts across the lawn

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Partial Transcript: "Notice that this pathway cuts across the lawn. A lot of places they put the cement where they want people to walk but at Antioch we wait and we see where people are going to walk and THEN we put the pathway in."

Segment Synopsis: Jay talks about a simple example of the unique culture of Antioch

Keywords: Pathways

Subjects: Civil Engineering; Civil Planning

00:09:35 - My First Co-op Job

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Partial Transcript: "There were two Divs. Div A and Div B. You had roughly half the students off working and then the other half was on campus. Antioch was about 1800 students at that time. It was very full. I was on a div where my first six months were on campus and then for four months I was at a job."

Segment Synopsis: Jay talks about his first job at New York City, the way Antioch's co-op system was structured, and his first attempts at getting arrested at a "Ban the Bomb Rally"

Keywords: Ban the Bomb; Co-op; New York City

Subjects: Anti-Nuclear Proliferation; Civil disobedience; Co-op; New York City

00:12:21 - Jay's quick Bio of his youth and the renown of his family.

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Partial Transcript: "I grew up in the Bay Area..."

"His name is Sydney Siegel his area was social Psychology statistics but actually at Stanford he had done a lot of work on utility theory he had developed ways of measuring utility. He and an economist at Penn state did the first experimental study of economics. They tested various bilateral bargaining theories. "

Segment Synopsis: Jay gives a quick bio of his early life and his parents careers.

Keywords: Bay Area; California; Nobel Prize in Economics; Penn State; Utility Theory; Vernon Smith

Subjects: Behavioral Science; Child Psychology; Economics; Nobel Prize in Economics; Utility Theory; Vernon Smith

00:18:04 - In your era were many students going onto preeminent graduate programs?

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Partial Transcript: "Oh no question"

Segment Synopsis: Jay describes the accolades and accomplishments of Antioch Students that he graduated with. The majority of them going onto very prestigious universities and working under multiple Nobel prize laureates.

Keywords: Art; MIT; Nobel Prize; Science; Stanford

Subjects: Art; MIT; Nobel Prize; Science; Stanford

00:22:05 - Jay's Second Co-op

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Partial Transcript: "For my Second Co-op job I wanted to be at Penn State. So I'm walking down the street at Penn State and I look and I see the Penn State computer center. So I walk in and I say "you should hire me as programmer because I know what bit and a byte is." and they kind of looked at me and said "who is this guy? but you know he does know what a bit and a byte is." So essentially for three months they taught me programming. I don't think I ever really did anything that meaningful, but at that time they knew they needed more programmers."

Segment Synopsis: Here we learn how surprisingly easy it was to get a job in the 60s for white men at least, and a small window into women entering the workforce.

Keywords: Penn State; Programming; Women in Programming

Subjects: Code; Computer Science; Penn State

00:26:32 - The Yellow Springs instrument company

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Partial Transcript: "My first major was Mathematics, and that's what I did for the Yellow Springs instrument company was solving mathematical equations to help calibrate their instruments....Antioch had like, owned forty percent or some of the Yellow Springs Instrument company and a few years ago when I think it was bought it brought seven to ten million or twenty million dollars to Antioch's endowment so that's great."

"It was founded by an Antiochian I think."

"I think my job was a make work job."

"My last two jobs were in the last six months of my senior year. They were at Stanford. In fact Stanford was where I was when Kennedy got shot. Maybe I was at Stanford during the march in Washington. I'm not sure I didn't really go to that one.

Segment Synopsis: Jay's third Co-op was at the Antioch Instrument company and his last two jobs after that were in the last six months in his senior year at Stanford.

Keywords: Co-op; Kennedy Assassination; Mathematics; Yellow Springs Instrument company

Subjects: Co-op; Kennedy Assassination; Stanford

00:28:33 - a recap of Jays Co-ops

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Segment Synopsis: Jay goes through a summary of his co-ops specifying his first New York co-op as having a large influence on him. Some interesting anecdotes about changes in computer science over time.

Keywords: Coding; Graduate Students; Museum of Modern Art; New York; The Chelsea Hotel; Union Square

Subjects: Coding; Computer Science; Museum of Modern Art; New York; The Chelsea Hotel; Union Square

00:33:25 - Curricula and the Campus Experience. What was campus like?

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Partial Transcript: "Campus was very very nice. I loved it very much. I lived in I think it was called Rookery. It was in the back of main building it was towards your left. I think it is called north now."

"It was very social. There was a nice element of egalitarian. Not as much as it is now but relative to society. Div dance was fun but if you didn't go you didn't feel like you'd be left out or be a nobody. The sexual revolution hadn't occurred yet but Antioch was definitely very sexually liberated."

Segment Synopsis: Jay describes the "invigorating social environment" of Antioch. The late night discussions about the possibilities of a Kennedy win, the beauty of the recently finished student union, the meal ticket plans, the social center of the cafeteria, and the wonderful newly built library.

00:39:37 - Comms was a great place to go for chicken and beer.

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Partial Transcript: "Comms was in the ah black area, it was really the only truly integrated part of the area. I don't know if comms is still there now."

If you're going downtown and head off to the left. It was definitely still in a predominantly black cultural area."

Segment Synopsis: Jay talks about the integrated restaurant of Comms, a chicken restaurant in the black part of Yellow Springs that was "the truly integrated part of Yellow Springs" he compares it to the tavern which was in the segregated white section of town. The tavern is still standing, Comms is unidentified.

Keywords: Integration; Segregation

Subjects: Integration; Music; Racial Segregation; culture

00:42:17 - The Glenn, the Little Art Theatre, Square Dancing, Jorma Kaukonen, and Bob Dylan in the Student Union?

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Partial Transcript: "I loved the glenn one of the reasons why. I could have gone to Stanford and saw the sierras but I was like "whoah this is right on the edge of campus."

"Antioch had the AMPC society. The Antioch Motion picture society."

"there was this quiet little kid on the third floor of north and we were all worried about him. Ya know what was he gonna do? He ends up dropping out to move to California and becomes the lead guitarist in Jefferson Airplane. He was Jorma Kaukonen."

Segment Synopsis: Jay talks about all of the more extreme social aspects of Antioch.

Keywords: Movies; hiking

Subjects: Arthouse; Environmentalism; Nature

00:44:35 - My first Girlfriend her father fought in the Spanish civil war. My next one was an African American.

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Partial Transcript: "having a period of time where a girlfriend was African American sort of introduced me to the black students. Even then black students would sit at their own table in the cafeteria or at the sea shop. So even if it was integrated in fact it often wasn't in geography."

Segment Synopsis: Jay expresses what pulled him into the civil rights movement and a larger meeting in Dayton to support the sit ins that were beginning.

Keywords: Change; Civil Rights; Integration; Social movements; Spanish Civil War

Subjects: Activism; Civil rights; Spanish Civil War

00:47:51 - SNCC and the Ohio Project

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Partial Transcript: "It was really to focus on this area, south western Ohio. Really conservative and it was to desegregate retail establishments in south western Ohio."

Segment Synopsis: Jay explains how segregation existed in south western Ohio primarily through redlining and retail establishments. SNCC noticed so much that they created the Ohio project.

Keywords: Desegregation; Discriminatory Housing; Redlining; SNCC

Subjects: Civil Rights; Desegregation; Discriminatory Housing; Redlining; SNCC

00:52:12 - 63 and 64 is when I think about what is happening today.

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Partial Transcript: "The mother of Emmitt Till insisted that there be an open coffin and photographs of her son and that had a huge impact. Its interesting that the family of George Floyd is having an open casket."

Segment Synopsis: Jay makes multiple comparisons between the social unrest of his twenties and current events seeing a lot of similarities between the death of Emmitt Till and George Floyd.

Keywords: Civil Rights; Emmitt Till; George Floyd

Subjects: BLM; Civil Rights; Integration; Racial Violence

00:55:16 - What it was like bringing Carlotta to lunch at my Uncles.

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Partial Transcript: "He was very progressive and he had a long time day maid, and she was an African American. She was a great cook, we got a long. We got a long very well. But I come in for lunch with Carlotta and man, the whole atmosphere is icy cold. And man I come back and I'm forgetting her name, the day maid, and man, she ripped me up and down. "

Segment Synopsis: Here Jay expresses his experiences dating an African American woman in the early 60s experiencing hostility from both families and neighborhoods and being completely blindsided by his own white privilege to how much vitriol and what reactions they would get.

Keywords: Inter-racial dating; reactions

Subjects: Inter-racial dating; Social Stigma

00:58:32 - ACRE is starting to frame conversations on campus?

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Partial Transcript: "We brought in Mae Mallory to speak. It was sort of half a seminar and half a political action. I was interested in both of that. We read I'm blocking again on the author, Negros with Guns. In the 50s there was a Black Korean war veteran who started a gun club, actually the NRA was very supportive of black gun clubs, In the 50s."

Segment Synopsis: Here jay talks about the various ways ACRE attempted to direct the conversation on segregation and racism on Antioch and how that lead up to the protests over Gegners.

Keywords: NRA; Racism; Segregated geography; Segregation

Subjects: Integration; NRA; Racism; Segregated Geography; Segregation

01:03:13 - It became clear to us at ACRE that you had to rock the boat.

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Partial Transcript: "It became clear to us at ACRE that you had to rock the boat. You had to rock the boat. This gentlemen's agreement status quo can't just continue. The faculty in some weird way was part of this gentleman's agreement."

Segment Synopsis: Jay talks about ACRE making the decision to move their actions off campus and truly rock the boat. Blaming the faculty of Antioch for being too neutral at the time. Eventually SNCC gets involved and brings in activists and students from multiple surrounding colleges placing Antioch Students in the minority even.

Keywords: Political Action; SNCC; Sit ins

Subjects: Freedom Singers; Political Action; SNCC; Sit Ins

01:05:53 - The Freedom Singers and the importance of revolutionary music.

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Partial Transcript: "We all know "we shall overcome" I don't know how many people know it was to support Unions. It was a song you would sing on the picket lines and it was the line "we shall overcome." but it was a big deal in SNCC that when you say "we shall overcome" you don't say "someday" you say "this day" so I always listen for that."

Segment Synopsis: Jay talks about the influences of the Freedom Singers and the tweaks they made to revolutionary music commenting on his perception of music losing it's presence in protests recently.

Keywords: Pete Seeger; Picketlines; SNCC; Unions

Subjects: Freedom Singers; Integrations; Pete Seeger; Picketlines; SNCC; Unions

01:07:58 - The plan, how the event got kicked off.

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Partial Transcript: "It was very close, it was very close, and I think the day before. Because it was, the motion there was action and to get people really excited to action. And the plan always was to shut down 68."

"Their is a picture on the website of me and an African American man knocking on the door. They had picked me because I had curlier hair back then. There is some thought that Jews and Mediterranean's have hair closer to black hair and Gegner's excuse was that he didn't know how to cut black hair."

Segment Synopsis: Jay gets into the day of action where these events kicked off. He discusses the large amount of people from surrounding areas, Brooke discusses the more progressive history and how disappointing it is that Yellow Springs still had a defacto form of segregation going on at the time.

Keywords: Haircuts; Outside Agitators; Segregation

Subjects: African Americans--Segregation; Civil Rights; Civil disobedience

01:10:47 - The make up of the protestors and the police. Brooke gives us the setting.

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Partial Transcript: "it is interesting to note that Yellow Springs had this early culture of diversity because high ranking Black Servicemen retired from World War Two here because they weren't redlined here.....And yet still this presence of students, this rush of students from Wilberforce or central state you think was provocative or caused some discomfort? "

Segment Synopsis: Brooke gives us a good understanding of the setting of who compromises each side while Jay tells us what he sees as it's importance linking that demonstration in the summer of 64 to the demonstrations that would come later that summer in Missisipi.

Keywords: Redlining; Segregation

Subjects: Civil Disobedience; Redlining; Segregation

01:15:22 - "I think it is important to note that some 30 American cities have seen the likes of that gas [during the recording of this interview in the Summer of 2020] for a lot of the same issues, I would like to reflect on that but before we do can you play the day out for us as slowly as you can?"

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Partial Transcript: "As I remember, we assembled on the campus and then marched/walked to downtown and I think we made some demand to gegner that ah, I don't even think he was there but we made some demand, and then when nothing happened we formed and went across 68 and sat and linked our arms and sang songs. And then the Chief of police came and said we should disperse, and we refused......"

Segment Synopsis: Jay walks us through the events of the day and the dedication of the protestors refusing to submit to the police.

Keywords: Nerve gas; Tear gas

Subjects: African Americans--Segregation; Civil Disobedience; Integration; Nerve gas

01:31:52 - The New York Times names Antioch the vanguard of the civil rights movement

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Partial Transcript: "so many of us had privilege and power."

Segment Synopsis: Jay and Brooke discuss the connection between Antioch and the outside world. Jay reflects on the privilege and influence of the majority of the students at Antioch at the time. Their connections having influence to the outside world.

Keywords: Privilege; influence; power

Subjects: African Americans--Segregation; Privilege; Yellow Springs

01:34:10 - What was your response to administration at Antioch or faculty at that time?

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Partial Transcript: "I don't think so. My reaction was the reaction of a young kid. I thought the faculty were smug and wasn't interested in change."

Segment Synopsis: Jay discusses his view and experience with the faculty of Antioch. His surprise at a preferred professor of his' response to the demonstrators.

01:37:50 - What would you say to that radical student today? What would you say to that faculty member who is hesitant to radicalize in support of students? because this is a very contemporary issue today that is happening this week at Antioch.

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Partial Transcript: " You know, I don't think I would say very much. I think that is a very natural conflict. I would say don't be afraid to think and discuss what you believe."

Segment Synopsis: Jay encourages more interaction between students and faculty and that people accept the this natural conflict and use it. Holding to the opinion that the issues will always be a little bit different and that those at Antioch today need to be involved and that Jay is a fierce supporter of Free Speech.

01:41:15 - We failed to take the conflicts out of the constitution.

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Partial Transcript: "The only way we're going to deal with it is to have the conflict where we see what they really are. Today things are really spoken out. We know what people think and believe."

Segment Synopsis: Jay focuses heavily on the values of hashing out conflict and encouraging open discussion as a means of doing this.

Keywords: Free Speech

Subjects: Civil disobedience; Free Speech; Integratoin; Segregation

01:42:11 - What do you think was SNCCs main finding in what had to happen to lead us forward into the summer of 64?

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Partial Transcript: "Put white northern students in the front of the line. Have white northern students get beat up. To put it bluntly, really really bluntly. you have to get white privileged northern students to get beat up so their parents see the reality of voter registration in Mississippi."

Segment Synopsis: Jay and Brooke discuss the unfortunate reality of change being dependent on the privileged experiencing the brutality that marginalized communities see on a daily basis.

Keywords: SNCC

Subjects: Civil disobedience; SNCC

01:47:05 - You're proud of that movement and the success and the scale of what happened. How would you this has changed you?

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Partial Transcript: "After Antioch I went to Stanford Graduate school in economics and statistics got my PHD in economics with a minor in statistics....I remember in 64 reading this pamphlet about Vietnam and going "Oh shit, this was going to be the next big thing""

Segment Synopsis: Jay explains that this series of events was the beginning of his dedication to fight for these demands. Stating his focus eventually shifts to demonstrations against Vietnam and to maintaining the wins of the civil rights movement. He even went onto organize a union of Graduate students workers. After Nixon's election this event inspired Jay to become a Canadian resident, he was heavily reassured of Americas Descent into Fascism while watching the 68 democratic primary and the Kent State shootings. He returned to California for Good in 84 after being denied Tenure at the University over Toronto.

Keywords: Berkley; Civil Rights; Stanford; Unions; Vietnam

Subjects: Berkley; Civil Rights; Civil disobedience; Integration; Stanford; Unions; Vietnam

01:56:18 - The Right wing figured out 20-30 years ago that they need to get involved at the local level.

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Segment Synopsis: Jay Highlights the importance of the school board.

01:57:34 - What would you, do you, did your experience early in the civil rights movement, and later Vietnam, and your involvement with school districts would you do things differently? do you have any reflections? What is the work to be done now?

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Partial Transcript: "My reflection is one of optimism. Because things have been a lot worse then they are now. My view is I look back and I think, it was a lot tougher back then. More people were killed and lives were diminished."

"In Mississippi of 64 you didn't have huge demonstrations in the north."

"It would be fantastic if you had in the summer of 64 people turn out how they are now."

Segment Synopsis: Jay's final reflection is one of optimism, and the importance of historical perspective.