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00:00:00 - Introduction to Ann Shafor

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Partial Transcript: Ann, could you state your name and spell it out for us?

Segment Synopsis: Ann introduces herself, and talks about how she came to the MVRPC, recounting her previous work experiences at the Cincinnati City Planning Commission and the Better Housing league in the late 1960's.

Keywords: Better Housing League; Cincinnati; Cincinnati City Planning Commission; MVRPC

00:02:41 - Ann's Experience at the MVRPC

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Partial Transcript: Let' start about when you signed on to the MVRPC. Do you remember what the priorities were at that time?

Segment Synopsis: Ann describes her early projects with the MVRPC, including an inventory of commercial developments, an industrial study, which preceded her work in housing. She cites the Housing Act of 1968 as a primary reason for her transition into work on housing. She goes on to recount her experiences surveying different housing areas while working with the Better Housing League and the Cincinnati City Planning Commission. She talks about going door-to-door surveying many of the poorer areas in the region, and how such experiences informed her interest in housing conditions, and prompted her to work with the MVRPC when she moved to the Dayton area.

Keywords: Better Housing League; Cincinnati City Planning Commission; Housing Act of 1968; housing conditions; low-income housing; poverty; surveying

Subjects: City planning; Housing; Low-income housing

00:09:05 - Staffmembers at MVRPC

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Partial Transcript: Dale [Bertsch] had a lot of guts.

Segment Synopsis: Ann begins by talking about the controversial nature of the work the MVRPC director, Dale Bertsch, did. She says that Steve Nelson was the assistant director at the time when she began at the MVRPC, and mentions Norah Lake, who took charge following Bertsch's retirement. She goes on to describe her working relationships with Minnie Johnson, Kathy Emery, Roberta Longfellow, as a team in the MVRPC. Additionally, Ann talks about the way that Bertsch's fearlessness often had an impact on the way she was perceived by various communities that she worked with, sometimes in a negative way.

Keywords: Dale Bertsch; MVRPC; Norah Lake; Publishing; Steve Nelson; public speaking; resistance

00:14:52 - The Housing Element Revolution and the Scatteration Plan

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Partial Transcript: Do you remember how [the MVRPC's work with housing] was set into motion?

Segment Synopsis: Ann describes the plan that was made by the MVRPC to address housing in the region following the Housing Act of 1968. She credits Dick Coleman, a consultant who had been director of the Better Housing League, with the Housing Scatteration plan that the MVRPC created. She talks about the scatteration plan, which worked to scatter low and moderate income housing throughout the area. She says that later the concept name was changed to "Fair Share."

Keywords: Fair Housing Act of 1968; Scatteration; consultant; housing element; public speaking

Subjects: Education, Cooperative; Housing development; Regional planning

00:20:46 - Writing The Plan

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Partial Transcript: After Dick [Coleman] planted the seed, you authored the plan to a large extent?

Segment Synopsis: Ann talks about authoring the scatteration plan, also known as the Fair Share plan, and writing at the MVRPC in general. She discusses the shift she made from personally and manually writing for the MVRPC, to later working with a clerical staff who helped her with the process. She then reflects on a housing conference hosted by the MVRPC in 1970, and her progress with the housing plan at the time of the conference. She says that the conference kicked off the new plan, and was a venue to announce the changes that would be made. She also credits Minnie Johnson with creating the formula which would become part of the plan itself.

Keywords: Housing Conference; MVRPC; Norah Lake; Scatteration

Subjects: Building commissioning; Housing

00:26:55 - Regional HUD and FHA offices and The Plan

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Partial Transcript: What was the climate like for regional HUD and FHA offices at the time? Did you believe they were going to be helpful?

Segment Synopsis: Ann talks about the FHA (Federal Housing Administration) apprehension toward the plan, while she says HUD (Dept. of Housing and Urban Development) was more supportive, and she suggests that this was because of Dale Bertsch's relationship with the director of HUD. She then delves into Bertsch's political abilities, and how his political relationships helped develop the MVRPC, but also brought some controversies.

Keywords: Federal Housing Administration; Oakwood; US Department of Housing and Urban Development; distribution; politics

Subjects: Federal government; Regional Planning

00:31:33 - Relative Successes of the MVRPC Plan

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Partial Transcript: There are a couple of ways to measure the success of this plan.

Segment Synopsis: Ann discusses the successes of the Dayton Plan. She talks about the media coverage and popularity of the plan, and she says that she spent time presenting on her work in various places all over the country. Because of this coverage she says, many of the wealthier areas of Dayton responded with negativity to the work of the MVRPC, and she states that she received some threats in response.

Keywords: Kettering; Oakwood; city planning; legacy; moderate-income housing

Subjects: Press coverage

00:35:05 - Suburban and Urban Attitudes towards The Plan

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Partial Transcript: They found that many suburbanites were hesitant because of class.

Segment Synopsis: Ann comments on the reactions of people from various suburbs and towns to the MVRPC's attempts to establish affordable housing in their areas. She speaks about controversy surrounding units in Centerville, as well as Oakwood. In particularly, she discusses how residents of Oakwood were especially opposed to the housing plans. She goes on to talk about the process of approval and implementation for such types of housing plans, and discusses the steps which a proposal went through, including going through the MVRPC, then through the A-95 process, then to the full commission, before being approved or carried out.

Keywords: Centerville; Kettering; Oakwood; Suburbanites; US Commission on Civil Rights; class; inner cities; opposition

Subjects: Discrimination in housing; Social classes

00:43:50 - Public Housing

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Partial Transcript: Did you find that getting the moderate-income level housing into places was easier?

Segment Synopsis: Ann discusses the difficulties of securing public housing in various municipalities. She talks about the fear that was felt about public housing, which was synonymous with low-income housing at the time, in the suburbs. She says that residents of those areas identified public housing with crime and poverty. She connects this to the relative ease of building moderate-income housing, although she says low-income housing was easier to sell when it was used for elderly housing.

Keywords: Crime; Donna Denman; FHA; HUD; Moderate-income housing; Public Housing; Southern suburbs; low-income housing; poverty

Subjects: Older people--Housing; Poverty; Public housing

00:51:38 - Dale Bertsch's Departure

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Partial Transcript: Dale's departure - What did that do to the MVRPC?

Segment Synopsis: Ann discusses her devastation at Dale Bertsch's resignation. She says that it was difficult for her because of her working relationship with Bertsch, as well as the success of the MVRPC under Bertsch's leadership. She also talks about the transition to the MVRPC under Norah Lake.

Keywords: A-95; Dale Bertsch; MVRPC; Norah Lake; The Ohio State University; Washington, DC; politics; resignation; units

Subjects: Housing

00:55:37 - State Role in MVRPC

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Partial Transcript: Was there any real role that the state played?

Segment Synopsis: Ann talks about the state HUD office in Columbus, and officer Riordan who worked in that office, and worked closely with MVRPC, and helped secure units.

Keywords: Columbus; HUD; Mt. Laurel; New Jersey; Riordan

00:59:17 - The Legacy of The Plan in the Annals of Planning History

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Partial Transcript: Ann, do you have any other anecdotes or stories about MVRPC that we haven't touched on yet?

Segment Synopsis: Ann brings up the publicity that the MVRPC got during and following the implementation of the plan, and the excitement during that time. She talks about flying around the country to present on the work she did. She also describes how the work that was done by the MVRPC was so popular that it became part of planning history in the US.

Keywords: Dale Bertsch; MVRPC; New York, NY; Planning history; US Commission on Civil Rights; Washington, DC; planning; publicity

Subjects: City planning