Matt Walker

Jasmine: So, this is Jasmine Timmester interviewing Matt and--Matt Walker, forgot your last name for a second. And it is October 25th [2021]. And you are--graduated with the class of, was it 2004? Is that right?

Matt: That's correct.

Jasmine: Okay, cool! So to jump, right into the first question, so could you tell me a bit about, like, your early life, you know, maybe your childhood, what that was like, and maybe about like, how you heard about Antioch, how you 00:00:30decided to go to Antioch, that sort of thing?

Matt: Sure. Absolutely. I was born in Washington DC in 1981, but I only lived there for about four years. My dad graduated from graduate school, and we moved to Washington State to the place I consider my hometown Vashon Island, and then shortly after that, my parents divorced. And I moved to Alaska and a few different places really, but I ended up doing my high school time back 00:01:00on Vashon Island in Washington State near Seattle. And I was not college-bound pretty much at all. I was like pretty jaded by education, going through public school and just kind of the angst of, you know, being a youth and finding out all the lies and weak aspects of kind of the greater adult world. I just didn't have a good motivation to really participate in a lot of those 00:01:30kind of pre-college, college prep things. I mean I had--I did take AP courses and things like that, but I had planned to just leave high school and go to an audio recording program at a community college north of Seattle called Shoreline Community College, and Antioch--I did attend like one college fair at 00:02:00some point in my senior year of high school and I had signed up for like maybe two or three colleges to like, get in touch with, one of which was Antioch, and they were the only one that really reached out, and they reached out very vigorously, they reached out a lot. And their, you know, their materials I found to be really well designed and you know, promoting a message, some messages of like social justice and environmental justice that I was like, 00:02:30already really into--kind of stopping there and rewinding a little, like my parents are, they're--they kind of fashion themselves as hippies, but they really--they were like, I guess progressives, that [wanted to] engage with society and try to change things for the better by engaging with big institutions, so my mom became an attorney and my dad works in global health, so I think that they were both really effective in implementing those kind of like, 00:03:00hippy, progressive ideals. They're both Christians too, so they're very like, they love Jesus but they don't believe in hell, they love Ghandi, you know those kind of like, those kind of hippies from the early '70s, really. So, they kind of, I feel like especially my mom, tried to raise me like with progressive values, you know kind of like civil rights values and all those kind of baby-boomer mid-century type of things. So I was already involved in some activism, and you know, had a great interest for social 00:03:30justice work. I also took debate in high school, policy debate which, where I was taking it was very leftist, very radical, very based on critique and kind of, bigger picture ideas, so I was kind like, you know, already interested in sort of Antiochian progressive, radical politics and wanted to 00:04:00learn more, but I was jaded on school, went to the community college for one year, and then, being out of high school I was like, oh, this is really cool, like I can learn what I want, and not all this adult supervision, and I was just kind of not in a ba--a really great lifestyle, I was just kind of in a sort of like, a rock and roll, self-destructive, kind of lifestyle at that point, you know when I was doing community college, when I was 18 or 19, so. I thought to pursue my education and also kind of break some of my self-destructive habits going away to college will be great. And Antioch, you 00:04:30know, promoted travel. They had the Antioch education abroad program and Co-op. So I was like, I want to go to New York, I want to go to India and pursue, you know, all these radical ideas. And so after that year at community college, I was like, I want to pursue Antioch and my parents, you know , were 00:05:00very supportive. They both had higher education degrees, and a little bit of money saved up, and did not think that I would be pursuing higher education beyond community college, so it was kind of like, great! You know, and then I, yeah, when I was 19, I guess, the fall of 2000, I arrived.

Jasmine: Okay!

Matt: On campus.

Jasmine: Right, right. And, you know, that really ties in well with the first 00:05:30question, which is, so: "Antioch College has a reputation for having one of the most radically progressive campus-cultures in the country. Would you agree with this reputation, and what was it like arriving as a new student?"

Matt: I would say that I would agree with that reputation. Although I feel like my basis for comparison is like, is pretty limited. I've been on campus at Oberlin but I didn't really engage with the community much, I was really just connecting for a ride to New York City. I've been at--on 00:06:00various college campuses just in a pretty limited capacity, but they do seem--there's one college that I spent at least a little bit of time in upstate New York called Hamilton College and yeah, if that's any basis for comparison, then I think Antioch's reputation is definitely well-earned. What was the other part of the question beyond just the reputation? Or the next part?

Jasmine: Yeah, just like, what was it like arriving as a new student?

Matt: It was awesome arriving as a new student. Very exciting. I never had 00:06:30spent any time in the Midwest, so just that change of environment and the humidity and all the different plants and creepers and greenery, I really enjoyed that natural environment. I'm like really into nature, and connecting with nature. So that was cool to experience nature in a new way, in a new bio-region. And yeah, just being a west-coaster being so far away from my family and my community. I found it super exciting, you know, I was on an adventure and it was, it was really--I thought it was kind of charming and 00:07:00exciting and fun because I got to campus, I got a ride from the airport and then I was kind of dropped off at Pennell House, or I was dropped off on campus and it was kind of like, we don't have a place for you. We're not prepared. We don't know what to do with you, and that was kind of like, just put him in Pennell House. And in those times Pennell House was like, so dreamy. It was--I always describe it as kind of like an anarchist cell, you know, like a great anarchist training grounds. They had like a zine library. There was a bike shop, a screen printing workshop or studio. 00:07:30There was Anti-watt, the pirate radio, you know, quasi-theoretical pirate radio station was housed there. Then there was a few other kind of empty rooms for student groups, and there was one student that lived there. So just so much creativity and all very like DIY. And the culture at the time was very like, 00:08:00anarchist and communist and things like that. Very leftist, radical. So all of the materials that you would see kind of lying around or in the zine library, were all just super political, super rad, super creative. I had just experienced the WTO, the World Trade Organization had one of their first big meetings in Seattle the year before, and that was like a huge protest movement, it was that kind of pivotal point on the left at the turn of the century. And so that really had kind of primed me for all those types of, you know, protest graphics and anarchist kind of direct action. And so I felt like it was 00:08:30 a great continuation of what I was really starting to get more and more into, and it was just kind of fun and seemed really student-run. Yeah, it was just exciting and strange and weird and I love thinking about that time, it's a really happy place for me [chuckles].

Jasmine: [That's] awesome! And so, you know with your parents being hippies as well, was it like, was it kind of like finding a home away from home? Like where--did you just kind of you know, like a fish in water kind of deal? Or was it, you know, did it take a lot of getting used to?

Matt: No, I think it was, it was really easy to get used to. My hometown's a lot like Yellow Springs, and I'm very social, so I'm just, I'll just, you know, walk up to people and start chatting them up and, you know, yeah, the fam was definitely supportive. You know, they thought it was great. I almost didn't come! I came and, as a prospective and was 00:09:30like, "I don't know." But my dad was like, "This place is for you! You gotta go, don't even consider it. It's happening." And I was like, "Alright, I'll give it a shot." So yeah, it was comfortable, it was very natural. I don't know, I don't--wasn't necessarily like the most popular student when I was a student here, but I found it very comfortable 00:10:00and I found like, a place in the community.

Jasmine: [That's] great! Let's see. I think we can go on to the next question, which is, "How do you think this culture affected you during your time attending the college and your life beyond? And did it specifically affect your understanding of your own gender and sexuality?"

Matt: Absolutely. Okay, so the first part is like, how did it affect me here? How did affect me beyond? And then how did it affect my relationship with my gender and sexuality? Is that what I'm hearing?

Jasmine: Yeah, exactly. And also feel free to include co-op experiences when 00:10:30thinking about all of those things as well.

Matt: Right. I mean, the progre--the culture here affected me very positively, you know, like I was already kind of primed to accept it, but especially being like a white, cis male, you know, there was a lot I had to learn. There was a lot of theories I had learned about, you know, by great thinkers and books I had read, but I think really just understanding my 00:11:00identity, my demographic, and how that fits into a progressive community, a radical community, the Antioch community, that was a, you know, there was a learning curve there, that was, you know, a challenge, I think. I had always been really held up in my activist circles and communities before, you know, ver--people were very supportive and things like that. So it was good, I think it was really good to come here and be harshly criticized, and harshly judged, and judged, you know, on face value a lot of times just based on my 00:11:30identity or my demographic. I know for a lot of people that's really hard. I was--I think I was really lucky to just, I don't think I had a big great love for my demographic, you know. So it was easy to internalize that critical view at some points, I mean, it would always be a challenge and 00:12:00we, you know, you talk about it with your friends and your kind of direct community and... I loved it. There was of course challenges and drama, but I think it was great. It had a great impact on me and I have always tried to just like grow with that and embrace it, and going beyond Antioch, definitely, I mean, I feel like I've tried to hold on to those ideals. You know, tried and cultivate them but that's always difficult for me in the 00:12:30midst of just like, capitalism and getting out of college, having a job. I moved pretty much straight from here to San Francisco, so eventually the Bay Area became extremely expensive and challenging and that kind of proposed its own challenges in terms of lifestyle and what exactly I am cultivating each day, but kind of be--while I was in Antioch. Yeah, I'm trying to figure out, there's like the connection because then how like, Antioch influenced 00:13:00my understanding of gender, my own gender, my own sexual orientation, I mean, that was just a big thing obv--of course, just being exposed to so many different kinds of people, and everyone just exploring so vigorously all the time here, you know, so many people--I feel like when I entered, and the kind of community that I entered with and that was already here, there wasn't like a ton of trans students, but I feel like over the course of my 00:13:30time here, like so many people came out as trans, so many people came out as all different sort of queer identities, you know, myself included, that's really, really started for me here. And yeah, it was just really positive. I think it was really beautiful to be a part of that community where people are just, pretty much allowed to just grow and flower and develop in all these really unique ways, and that's been so cool, you know, beyond Antioch, seeing the trans community grow and flourish and coming here and seeing 00:14:00so many, you know, incoming freshmen, or you know, new students that are already, you know, know all about, you know, LGBTQ issues, trans issues, like it's just cool to see that how kind of, I feel like it was really flowering and developing, you know, 20 years ago, and just that continuation in the world, and especially here, is, makes me super happy and I feel like I'm really a part of something bigger. Co-op definitely was a 00:14:30huge part of the stuff relating to sexuality and the stuff relating to progressive radical politics. My first co-op here-- I had a pre-Antioch co-op, because I was involved with this activist organization. And that was like a youth arts and activism group that I like, helped form and create and we opened up a venue. Totally appropriate for pre-Antioch co-op. And my first actual co-op, I went and worked in this performance art theater in Manhattan as like, kind of the technical intern, but I really did everything, and it was a 00:15:00queer space. It was run by this awesome lesbian woman named Ellie Covan, who's kind of like one of those insider, old-school New York people and the whole community there was just queer and not every single person was necessarily gay, or, you know, trans or, but they were--it was definitely a queer community. And that was just great. It was cool to be in New York, of course, something that I wanted to engage with the art community there, 00:15:30especially, and, but just to be surrounded by elders, everyone was pretty much older than me and have them all be proud, you know, of their identity and being non-conforming and that was really good! That--I really encountered a lot of people outside of the job, you know, going out for work for drinks, everyone in the theater scene there, it's like, "We're all going out for drinks afterwards!" And so that was just cool to be in community with queer people and begin really questioning myself and exploring, you know, my own 00:16:00identity and my own like, values and attractions. So that was a big one for me. I think that was a great community and awesome co-op. It was really difficult, but, it was a list job too, so it was a very mainstream Antioch co-op. I still you know, use that stuff: things I learned and my references, and it was a big building block for my career. And yeah, and there was, I feel like 00:16:30there was some other like co-ops and things that more developed me, like, politically, like, I spent a lot of time in India. After New York I went straight to India and did an independent study abroad and then like a study abroad, maybe one was a co-op, one was a study abroad but, that one was interesting, India is such a different, unique place from America and... But they do have a whole legacy of their own type of queer culture, you know, 00:17:00Hinduism has its own unique norms regarding gender, and mixed gender, and like, trans deities, and it's still, it's also a very traditional, rigid, you know, even--it can be even fascist as a society, but there is a really unique traditional place for, essentially, queer people and queer identities within this traditional Hindu society. And I definitely 00:17:30encountered that from time to time. There's this group called Hijras that are like, this really unique part of Indian society. And whenever I would encounter them, they would like gravitate right towards me and try and get me to like run away with them and join their groups, which I never did unfortunately, but that was just something that was unique, like a cro--it was just always a cross-cultural experience being there. But to just have this kind of innate bond with the queer community there, you know, their gaydar was just 00:18:00like, going off the charts with me, I guess so, it was--that was really a special experience, you know, it's like so multifaceted. So that definitely has to be mentioned. And then one of my final co-ops, or maybe it was also a study abroad, I feel like a lot of my work was like this gray area, was it a co-op? Was it a study abroad? They were kind of like, "How do you want to credit it?" But I did this thing, New York Arts Program, and that I worked for a 00:18:30jazz musician and he was a very radical black man, and he had a lot to teach me about race and politics, and the dynamic between us. So that really, you know, just bolstered my connection with like radical politics and, you know, those other experiences, and at Dixon Place in New York or in India definitely bolstered my connection with like queer identity. Yeah, kind of set the stage 00:19:00for further growth. Which I can, you know, continue talking about, but I don't know if I've answered the question or not.

Jasmine: Yeah, no like, this to--like it does say, you know, "How did it affect you during your time at the college and beyond?" So yeah, you know, if there's more you want to share about, you know, beyond graduation, feel free!

Matt: Sure. I mean where my mind mind is going with all this like, where to 00:19:30go next kind of thing is, I guess I should just talk more directly about just my own gender, my own sexual orientation, I identify as a bisexual man, and I'm--a big part of the Q in queer for me, is in the kinky world. That's been a huge part of my identity, which started--well, yeah, it's been a large part of my identity, which started here, a partner that I had here and I when--at the very end of my time, we just really connected over 00:20:00kink and really started our--both of our journey--we both became really involved in kink and that whole world, starting here. And then after Antioch for sure, moving to San Francisco. She became a like, I--in kink, I identify as a switch, I'm predominantly a submissive but I do switch, and my partner at the time was dominant switch. So she went on to become a professional 00:20:30dominatrix. When we left here she went to study with Cleo Dubois' Academy of S&M Arts. And I started becoming a professional submissive in S&M kink movies in San Francisco from a company called Kink.com. And so, that was just a huge growth period, in terms of my queerness and my kinkiness and my bisexuality. Yeah, so that's definitely something I want to like, add to 00:21:00the conversation. Not sure exactly how to connect it to my Antioch time, but I mean, ultimately a lot of my time at Antioch, like I feel like one of the big learning things was just being in community. They're always talking like, the three C's, or the 4 C's or whatever [Classroom, Co-op and Community]. For me, Community was a big one, just--about race and, you know, learning about race, learning about whiteness, you know, hearing students of color's views, and the dynamics between all the groups and, you know, 00:21:30that was amazing, and just being in community with so many queer students and having those connections at dances and community events wh--that, you know, lead to exploring queer behavior, and having queer partners and transforming one's identity in meaningful ways. So yeah, that Community aspect was just such a big part of my experience here and I love it! And, yeah I don't know, I mean, I'm open to any of these questions and either ones 00:22:00you've got, follow-up questions, what can I tell you? What's next?

Jasmine: That's great! Thank you. I, so I do have three more like, core questions. And I'll also be trying to ask, you know, follow-up questions that aren't written down, just to kind of try and get more, you know, details out and everything. So, you know, you mentioned that sense of community, and it seems like through all the interviews so far, you know, 00:22:30talking about chosen family has been a pretty strong [theme]. And so I don't know if you know you find that to be true for your experience as well, when talking about Antioch and maybe in connection to, you know, that sense of community. But yeah, you know, if you don't mind talking about, maybe, you know, what--if any of your experience, you know, at Antioch, you 00:23:00know, you relate that to chosen family in any kind of way.

Matt: Yeah, that's a great question. Definitely, I think it's a huge part, I think, of people's experience here, you know, a lot of people come here that, you know, like if you're queer, for example, obviously, a lot of times, your family can reject you. So, it's so important to come here and find your chosen family and have a community and support, and a network. And I know so many of my, you know, the students that 00:23:30were here when I was a student, that was just the main thing. So huge, and I think it's really continued to be huge in their lives. I feel like it didn't--it's had a more nuanced, unique, like, way it's played out in my life. Like I was definitely very social and active and all those things, but I don't really feel like necessarily I connected with my chosen family here. I don't know--I still, I feel like I'm searching 00:24:00for that. I feel like I'm the type of person where the way my life has gone, I've really tried to build that for myself, but I really haven't arrived anywhere with that, and it's pretty tough for me, you know, I have a really small family to begin with, and we don't, you know, get along very well. It's not super--I'm not like totally shunned and disconnected but it is pretty dysfunctional and unsatisfying, unsupportive. So, 00:24:30I do really look to my friends and my community for the chosen family sort of experience, I guess you could say? But I don't know, I always just had a kind of a unique place in the community here, you know, being cis and white, but also being like radical and queer, it just kind of put me in an in-between zone, I think I've always kind of been in that kind of gray area. It's something I like about myself, but it also has challenges. 00:25:00It's really cool to be able to do code-switching and be in all these different environments and different groups, but I'm never exactly like a core member of any of those groups, and I think that part of my identity can be very confusing to groups on the left or on the right, there--people are often kind of not sure how I fit in, and I do have a kind of a type A personality so I can be a bit of like, in a leadership role, but that can be hard to take a leadership role if you're not like the core, you know, 00:25:30demographic or core personality type. So that's a big challenge for me. I really value that about Antioch and about like radical communities, but that's something I'm really still working on. I still have a lot of--maintain a lot of connections, you know, my current partner is someone that I went to Antioch with, but yeah, that's a good question and it's something that I'm always just trying to work on more and more.

Jasmine: Thank you for sharing about that. That actually, you know, you 00:26:00mentioned your current partner, that ties in really well with the next question, which is, "Since graduation, have you built a family and/or career? And if so, do you relate, these aspects of your life to your time at Antioch in any ways?" So there's that obvious connection of you went to Antioch together. I don't know if you would like to elaborate on that.

Matt: Yes, wait can you just say the question one more time?

Jasmine: For sure. "Since graduation, have you built a family and/or career? And if so, do you relate these aspects of your life to your time at Antioch in any ways?"

Matt: Gotcha, yeah I mean, definitely the answer would be yes. When I was here, I got married to that dominatrix woman Elmo Painter, but we were like, let's get married as a performance art ritual and like, have our way with marriage as like a hetero institution, and try and transform it, and 00:27:00like appropriate it into some queer space, which was exciting and qu--and, you know, it was great, and no one, none of our peers really understood that, but it was--that was interesting just to talk about quickly, like, thinking some huge institution like marriage had, you know, between a man and a woman, could be so easily manipulated and changed to our ways was a big eye opening experience, like the institution of marriage seemed to have a life of 00:27:30its own and really kind of pushed back on us, you know, the way other people start talking to you, or dealing with you, even if they know that you're trying to mess with these like heteronormative institutions, they instantly would just kind of reorient and you know, judge you, or view you in a certain way and family, of course, had their own, you know, preconceptions about what that meant and, you know, children or these normal life paths when you get 00:28:00married, but so that marriage really wasn't built on like, I guess a solid foundation, it didn't last much longer after Antioch, and, you know, that's okay. It was a great experiment, but I've since been remarried, and now I'm in the process of getting divorced again, so I'm basically twice divorced, both times with women. I feel like the second marriage I was like, responding to the, the kind of--my first marriage was, it 00:28:30was pretty extreme. It was an open marriage, it was poly [as in polyamorous], it was kinky, it was, it was a lot. And it was kind of our first, both of our first relationship to be super like, queer and open across the board. So it was amazing. I think we both still have a lot of love for each other and things like that, but it was a lot, you know, and then, and being in the context of sex work, you know, being in the film industry and all these other activities I was 00:29:00involved in in San Francisco, I think I just got overwhelmed. I wasn't, you know, seeing a therapist, I wasn't doing self-care, it was just a lot in a, in a fairly short amount of time. So I kind of recoiled from that, sadly, and tried to construct this family life for myself with my second marriage. And some stability, since I had no chosen family, I had no--very little actual family, but that just proved to be a mistake as well because I 00:29:30feel like I was really trying to put myself in a box and repress a lot of parts of myself in order to try and provide myself with what I thought would be stability in the long term, but that's been something positive. This new part--person I'm with, this new partner, is another Antiochian and they've been--they're very queer in their background as well. Terry Hempfling, I put them in touch with you, they're super excited and I think 00:30:00you'll find their story is like, very unique and interesting. So that's been really cool, kind of coming back to myself, coming back to my full personality, my full identity, you know, even though my partner is a cis woman, like it's coming--really a return to a much more queer space, and openness, and probably the most open, queer relationship I've probably ever been in. So it's really complicated, it's really all over the place, it doesn't really fit any kind of--fit the answer to the 00:30:30question neatly or any of the boxes neatly, but I have pride in that, you know, it's kind of my own strange pride. And yeah, so I mean that's kind of a big messy ball of like, the community aspect, and how it transpired at Antioch and moving forward. And then on the career aspect, of course, you know, like going here, I feel like I came out of college with a way 00:31:00better resume than a lot of my peers at other schools or in just, you know, doing other things. Just up until the pandemic I was still pursuing the kind of theater arts, tech--the technical side. I'm an artist and a musician and a writer, but living in expensive places, I've always pursued like "square work" to try and you know, make ends meet and pay the bills. So up until the pandemic I was still doing audio-visual work. A stagehand, I was 00:31:30working at Stanford doing that at this very fancy, bespoke concert hall [Bing Concert Hall] there and working for several of the major museums in San Francisco, but I'm happy to have just changed that and I'm going into fundraising and development here at Antioch, rejoining the workforce, so, still my career is still tied to Antioch and my co-op experiences now more than ever working directly for the organization, so I think that touches at 00:32:00least on some of the questions. I have the ability to talk a lot.

Jasmine: [That's great], I mean, yeah, it's all totally in connection. And yeah, you know, for most people, well for some people, you know, there's not really much of a connection with their career, you know, they got one major, and then they go into a completely different field after 00:32:30graduation. And so with you, obviously, there's quite a clear connection, since you're back here at Antioch, and so, you know, I guess, I'm not exactly sure how long you've been here at Antioch since coming back, if you want to talk about like how that's been, you know, coming back in a completely different role, and you know, I don't know if you still have much of a--I don't know if you feel connected, you know to the campus culture at the moment with Covid and everything, but, you know, if you want to 00:33:00talk about that at all?

Matt: Absolutely. I definitely feel connected to the campus culture, even before, much before getting the actual job here, you know, I just love it here. I would always just be wandering around campus, you know, drawing the buildings and just soaking it up, being nostalgic and trying to check out what's going on. And there was like a Colloquium, maybe two falls ago or one fall ago, where somebody, whoever was running the Instagram account started 00:33:30featuring seniors and their projects. So, before I even came back, it was really cool to connect with some outgoing seniors and find out what they're doing and just form community bonds, and then this year, I started coming here. My partner is from here besides being an alumni. So, we had traveled here--the pandemic really torched my entire life, in San Francisco--my work, my relationship, everything just kind of went away. So I basically hit the road 00:34:00with my new partner and we came here at some point. And yeah, I came here a few times, I volunteered with Michael Casselli and--oh, no, that's what it was, it was the AFAAB project [the Ant Farm Antioch Art Building Creative Preservation Initiative], the art building, I was like super into it being an arts major, so I started contacting people like, hey, I'm going to be on campus, do you think I can get in there? Do you want me to help out? And they were--so they got me set up to do a little photo update on what was the state of the building. And then I met Casselli, interviewed in Herndon Gallery, and met 00:34:30Sarah Mills, who was a senior, and we became friends, and then I think from Sarah, I just started meeting other students, like, she has a house in town that has kind of a public-facing front porch, so it'd be like, you're walking by--"Oh, what's up?" Or there'd be someone else there, it's kind of a public hub of a little apartment. So I just started meeting, I met Truth and Vespere, and just started meeting more and more students, and just instantly hitting it off. Like, we really hit it off right 00:35:00away. As you know, Antiochians through the ages have a way of doing sometimes. So, that was really cool. And then Sarah later in the year was like, oh, I'm doing my senior project, I'm really struggling, I wish you were here to help me. And I was like, that sounds kind of like a fun idea and my life hadn't kind of reconstituted yet. So then I came back out here. I was kind of traveling again and came back out here and did a ton of work with them on their senior project and Casselli again. So that was just kind of doubly fortifying those bonds, and then seeing the other friends I kind of had started making, and making more new friends. Then I went away again, and I 00:35:30was just kind of evaluating my next step, you know, without a job in San Francisco I was going to have to really start digging into my small savings, and I just realized that, like--I've never owned a car, also, so, it's like, my, one of my ways of just lifestyle environmentalist--being a lifestyle environmentalist or something. So, that always factors in like, if I was going to buy a car, that would be a huge compromise of my values and a compromise of 00:36:00my funds. And I realized, like, I could live in Yellow Springs, be near my partner, not own a car, if I could just get a job and Antioch, it would be perfect! And then I was--oh, I had made friends with Sophie Malon, who was working in communications, and they had interviewed me, and that was a big connection and we were really collaborating on this long-form interview, sort of like this where I ramble on forever [chuckles]. Which they had told me, right at 00:36:30this point when I was thinking Yellow Springs, it might be good, they were like, "Oh, they're hiring events manager at Antioch!" Because that's something I really do a lot of, is producing events beyond my just career, like on my personal, for my bands, for the music, kind of the community I was in in San Francisco was an arts community and I produced a lot of events there. So it seemed cool, I just kind of took a chance. Moved out here, from being here a bit I had some places to kind of crash until I had an apartment. And just came out, I was crashing with my friend, Doug on High Street, and slowly but surely things kind of 00:37:00came into place. I started interviewing, got the interview for the events job--didn't get it, but I had interviewed so well, that April Wilford kind of--they were having some outgoing staff transitions and April was like, "Would you want to work for us in this kind of, other multi-faceted capacity," and--which was directly in the department of fundraising and advancement, which years before the pandemic, as I started becoming a disgruntled audio-visual person, a friend and I had been talking like, "Hey, you're always raising funds for all your art projects. Why don't you go into 00:37:30fundraising?" And so slowly, I was trying to make that happen, but then when April was like, you want to come work with me [in the fundraising] department I was like, that's spooky. It's perfect, you know, because the events thing was a little bit kind of one foot in my old job a little bit, which was fine, but I was like, I want to kind of be moving forward, but it's cool. And then when she said that and I was looking at a six-month time period, trying to make it happen here, like, where am I going to spend the winter? I 00:38:00need a safe place to spend the winter. And originally April was like it's a six-month job in fundraising and I was like, I'm trying to be here for six months and do fundraising. Now it's become just a full-time ongoing position and it's a lot of communications, a lot more than fundraising, but it's been super magical. I think it's just for me being more aligned with my values, making changes to be in communities like Antioch where I'm engaging my queer identity, where I'm engaging my like, leftist radical, you know, ideals or whatever. It makes sense to me what--how 00:38:30things would kind of fall into place like that.

Jasmine: [That's very] cool how that worked out. That's awesome [chuckles].

Matt: Yeah, the housing too, there was straight-up a housing miracle, like it was not looking good, like who wants to rent to an unemployed person from out of state? No one. But that's a whole other story really and not 00:39:00that interesting to this interview, but it was a miracle. I have just moved into this amazing apartment, and it was meant to be, you know?

Jasmine: That's great. That's great to hear. We can go on to the next question then, and this one can be a bit difficult to answer. You know, it sounds like, you know, it sounds like Antioch really appealed to you, specifically, you know, for what it is, as like a unique institution. So feel free, you know, if you don't have much of an answer to this one, 00:39:30that's totally fine, but, "Are there any ways in which you think your life would be different, had you gone to a more typical liberal arts college?"

Matt: Yes. I mean just even being at the community college beforehand, I often think about that, you know, if I had decided not to come and I'd been pursuing that, I think I would be a pretty sad person. You know, I think I would be really disgruntled. I probably would not have grown as much in my, like, sexual identity, and had so many chances to explore that here on campus. 00:40:00And when I left moving beyond, and politically as well, I mean, I just feel like, you know, Seattle is progressive and whatnot but the Pacific Northwest has a real history of conservativism and white supremacy. You know, and especially these days, it's come back in a major way, the further we get away from the 90s, I feel like the Pacific Northwest really... There's all these, you know, Republican terrorists emboldened by Trump that are just trying 00:40:30to hurt people and spread their vitriolic message. So I just feel like, I mean, I definitely would still have progressive ideals, but I feel like I'd probably be less radical. I'd probably be more like progressive, or I don't even, I'm scared to even think what I would be. And I think I would just be really sad. I would probably be really depressed, having not been able to find out who I am, and explore. I mean, and going to like--I probably just would never have really gone to another, you know, more 00:41:00typical liberal arts college, that just was not my way. And I feel like typical liberal arts colleges can kind of become like, yuppie factories. That was my experience whenever I was dating someone that, you know in Upstate New York, I mentioned Hamilton College, and it just freaked me out. I just felt, they were so much about homogeneity and everyone kind of fitting into the student body and embracing whatever the professors' views were, and kind of 00:41:30internalizing them and regurgitating them, and then they're rewarded and moving to these like, super privileged, wealthy spaces, that are like devoid of character, devoid of soul, and like in some ways devoid of a lot of true meaning. And I feel like it's kind of one of the fundamental problems with our society right now: people think they're going to become students and be kind of enlightened and expanded and all this critical thinking skills, but I feel like a lot of, you know, mainstream liberal arts, 00:42:00there's a lot of good ideas and amazing people and I love students of all walks of life, but I just have found them to be a bit homogenizing, that yuppie factory vibe. So yeah, I think I would be a lot less embodied in who I am and, I don't know I probably, there's a chance I would have killed myself, I think if I hadn't come here, just the weather alone in Seattle, I was starting to get so depressed and my self-destructive ways, you know, being in that rocker scene, white dude rocker scene. It's just complete self-destruction 24/7. I wasn't really doing like hard drugs but just alcohol alone is so, so damaging, you know, and even getting away from that I've struggled with, you know, alcohol for years. I'm doing really well now, but I don't think I would have made it. I probably wouldn't be on the earth at this time, so Antioch pretty much saved my life and provided me a pathway to an amazing life that I'm now living.

Jasmine: I'm--Great, I'm very glad that you found Antioch then, for 00:42:30sure. You know, the topic or the idea of you know, yeah, like, that building conformity in academic institutions, that's also been mentioned in other interviews and it is something very interesting for sure, you know, that Antioch does seem to be quite different from other institutions in that way and I think maybe other institutions are starting to catch up in some ways, thanks to like, professors wanting to actually encourage, you know, actual critical thinking and, you know, rather than just regurgitating information, but 00:43:00that's definitely still so [common] in so many institutions. So, yeah, I think that that just kind of naturally, probably connects with, you know, the queer community because to even realize that you're queer, to acknowledge it to yourself, you know, takes critical thinking because, you know, otherwise, you know, if we just went along with how society says we should be 00:43:30then, you know, we would all just assume that we're all cisgender, heterosexual. You know, it kind of takes that, maybe in some way, agency, of, you know, saying like this isn't what others are telling me I am, or this is what others are telling me is true, or should be, but this is, you know, from my perspective, I believe this to be true even though others say, you know, it shouldn't be, or isn't. Yeah, do you feel like you know, 00:44:00like that kind of critical thinking went along with your experience, you know, as a queer person?

Matt: Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean I think that's one of the bedrocks is just that critical thinking to the extreme, like, even to the 00:44:30detriment of one's own self or community where it just like, goes so far, and everything gets burned out, and the Eight Week Crisis [referring to the duress many students feel during Week Eight of the 11-week academic quarters], but then it's like, okay, scoop the pieces back together, and that's been really interesting to see too like, you know, there was a lot of divisiveness on campus, you know, just really a lot of drama and hatred, and just fragmentation. And it's been so cool for, to see people, you know, as the years progressed like really coming back together people that you would never think would ever be friends based on their experiences when they were here, but just because that, we were allowed to go to those extremes and 00:45:00have like a format in community on how to have dialogues or, you know, how to move forward given these problems. It's so special to just be like, oh my gosh, like I can't believe I'm even on speaking terms with that person! It's beautiful, it's amazing. So, yeah, it's just, it's an extreme culture, a culture of extreme critical thought and extreme open-mindedness. I think that's really led me where I'm at and just 00:45:30benefited me. I'm definitely that kind of person, I think the way I was raised up or whatever, whatever made me that way. So it's, I feel like it comes pretty naturally to me.

Jasmine: Yeah, I can understand that for sure. Let's go ahead, we have just one more question, kind of a big question though as well. "Is there any 00:46:00message that you would give to the current and future students of Antioch, if you could? And any message for the current and future LGBTQ+ youth in general?"

Matt: Absolutely. I mean, I just love students I love youth, youth rule, I always have been that way. I get along with youth, they're great. I mean the message in general, I'm just like, so proud of the students here. Like, when a student goes out of their way to, like, come here 00:46:30and participate, I just, I'm like, I'm so proud of you. I feel like that's a big message. It's like, and also I have a message of just, in terms of being an alumni or like an elder or something, you know, like, there's so many of us that have a lot of love for these students and are just so hungry to support, you know, whether it's hosting people on co-op, or hooking up housing when you leave, or jobs, I think alumni of all the 00:47:00ages always say that, but I definitely feel that way for sure. That's definitely a message I want to communicate. It's like, you know, we love you and we're here for you, and don't stop! Like I feel like the students are so similar, but also you all are just moving things forward and continuing to like, get radical, and get more queer, and just keep pushing things forward, and finding out what humanity is capable of. I'm 00:47:30like, what is even--what even this world is? I just might want to--that's another message like, just keep going, like don't stop ever, you know, thinking questioning like, getting radical, experimenting, trying new ideas, you know, don't do self harm if possible, but, and like to the to the LGBTQ+ youth, you know, like there's a beautiful community here. It can be hard and confusing, but there is like some shelter here and, you know, there is again the alumni, there's so many amazing queer alumni that have just 00:48:00been involved in so many struggles of the past that, you know, you can always reach out to and rely on, and yeah, you're not alone, I guess that's kind of a typical, trite, cliched one, but it's true and I--hopefully by coming here or engaging with alumni, staff, students, that you can sort of find that chosen family and that the work that especially I think 00:48:30the queer students are doing is such important work, like humanity needs this right now. There's, I feel like it's such a victory, like, the victories for humanity thing [referring to the Horace Mann quote and school motto], it's such a victory, in my mind, even for one person to get out of the toxic home life, come to a place, potentially like Antioch, come out of the closet, start to be truly who they are, you know, to me that's 00:49:00just so huge because you know, going to places like India where there's a much more traditional society, it's like there's millions of people out there that are just not able to do it and literally dying of it. You know, and you know what else I think is a good message, is the message of self-care, you know. There's been so much--so many leaders have been destroyed from different, you know, disease or drug use or, you know, self-hatred. It's like, I'd love to see the future have more leaders 00:49:30survive. I feel like part of the problem with our country and our society, these days is so many leaders have OD'ed, or died of AIDS, or--there's just such--so many tragedies. It's like, we need to protect ourselves and fortify ourselves and our community for the future, you know, even if they don't realize it now, like, people are going to need these kind of radical thinkers that we can be, that like a queer mind can come up with solution to 00:50:00these great problems that these mainstream thinkers are just never going to even come close to. So, even if society's like rejecting us, they need us and you know young queers need us and we need to all take care of ourselves and try and move forward and like let our light shine in the world. Like I think especially queer people, especially Antiochians, we have such a unique gift that I think it's going to make the world a better place just 00:50:30by allowing it to survive and to thrive.