Transcription
Ighna: So, we’re here to conduct this interview for the project “Reimagining
Linguistic Diversity” at FCCU which is being managed by Sir Adeel. I have Lalein Baloch here with me. Hi Lalein, how are you?Lalein: Hello Ighna. I’m fine, how are you?
Ighna: I’m good. So, should we start?
Lalein: Yes.
Ighna: Tell us a little bit about your language.
Lalein: I’m a Baloch speaker, and we are native to Balochistan as well as the
Sistan province of Iran and a part of Afghanistan, so the language is an Indo-Iranian language, and the dialect that I speak that Drukhshani direct is derived from the Irani language. About 80% of our language is derived from the Irani or Persian language. There are other dialects, like the Sulemani dialect or the Makarani dialect. They are different from how we speak Balochi. However, there are obviously some linguistic similarities. The language itself is much common in the province of Balochistan, however, when I came here, to Punjab, I realized there are some Baloch speakers here in the south of Punjab. But their Balochi is very different than ours and leans more towards the Siraiki dimensions. So, that’s it.Ighna: You’re saying that there are some changes between the dialects.
Lalein: Yea.
Ighna: So, I had a question related to that. As a native speaker of Balochi,
when you came here to FCCU, it’s a very multilingual community here in FC, so there are people from many different places, and they have many different native languages, so they speak very differently. How did that impact you and your language use? Specifically, your language use of Balochi, versus what you use at home. Were there any differences that people noticed when you went back home? Did anyone say something along the lines of Lalein speaks differently now?Lalein: Well, I cannot recall myself changing my language when I came to Lahore
and when I went back to Quetta. But I remember this instance, when my sister was in NCA, she had a really obvious change in the way she spoke and the words she used. We used to mock her, saying things like where did you learn to speak like this, what are you even saying. There was something. However, when I came to FC, the thing is when it comes to FCCU. We know that there is a lot of diversity here. You have loads and loads of communities and ethnicities, even religious groups. This in and of itself is a very prominent factor. For me, I’m the only Baloch girl here in FC. I hope more come here because it's very important for exposure and self-growth. I hope that when I go back to Quetta or Balochistan, I get to tell those girls to go and explore FCCU and outside Balochistan for your personal growth. For me, the biggest gap was when I came to Lahore, I couldn’t find anyone to speak Balochi with. It was something I craved. I just wanted to talk to someone in my language, either my family back home or just anyone. There was a positive side. My sister is here, I used to go there over on the weekends, and I used to be like at least there is someone who I could talk to in Balochi. There is one thing that automatically I was inclined towards people from Gilgit Baltistan and the Pashtun belt of Balochistan and Waziristan. I don’t know, maybe it's an innate desire to want and feel more comfortable with people who speak like you because you are disconnected from your region, from your land and you’re in an alien place. That sense of alienation brings you together with people you weren’t acquainted with before. That was a growth factor for me as I hadn’t been someone who got along with communicated with other people. I got to explore that here. Different ethnicities and groups, trying to find comfort for myself. I had this sense that I needed to communicate, and I understood oh this is what happens in Punjab, Siraki is spoken here. I used to think I knew Punjabi at one point but the moment someone spoke it here, I just stood there confused. I didn’t understand it.Ighna: I think it’s a very important point you bring up. It's very vital in how
it shapes you and your identity. Your native to the language you speak is related to how your language shapes your sense of self and your identity, especially when you were growing up in Balochistan.Lalein: I think it's like this one word in Baloch “Neras”. This is something
that comes from generation to generation. The honor of your language. The word is “Myyar”. The myyar of the Balochi language is something we carry from children. There has never been a sense of dissociating from our language. I believe the language plays a vital role in shaping our identity. Be it a woman, a boy, a man, a girl. Everyone has their distinct identity, and the Balochi language has done a lot in rendering that. Identity and sense of self. So, I think since childhood in my house we were supposed to speak in Balochi. There was no chance that you go for Urdu or English in our house. We knew in school we were going to be exposed to those languages, so our parents encouraged us to use Balochi at home. So that is something we’ve been doing for generations. So, this is something the community does. You have this sense of acceptance and love for the language. You celebrate it and your culture. Every house has this sense that I must use my language. That I must take it to my generation. Your language is your identity. So, when you talk about being in Quetta, it’s a very diverse area. There are Baloch, Hazar, Pashtuns, Barhavi, and some Sindhi people during migration times there. So, it’s very diverse. You don’t feel secluded. There is a sense of acceptance that oh they are Baloch. Pashtuns talk in Baloch; Balochi talk in Pashtun. So you don’t feel like I need to learn something besides Balochi. It's an intermingled society so you accept and respect others' identities.Ighna: Can you share particularly meaningful oral traditions or any stories from
your childhood which is associated with your hometown or something that you believe should be preserved so future generations can learn them?Lalein: Balcohi literature is of an oral tradition. The older generation tell
the younger generation, folk tales and stories. So, there is this thing that I remember from my childhood. It's one story where the wolf and the sheep, the Balochi version of that is Anerak and Paneerak. So Anerak and Paneerak are the two sheep, and the wolf tries to deceive them by implying that it's their mother on the door and they need to open the door for him. And you know, everything works. And I remember my mother used to always tell this story and I used to ask her, please tell me that story, please tell me about Aneerak, Paneerak. And it was like, I knew it word for word, but I don't know, I had this thing, that please tell me that story. But when it comes to particular, or you can say, meaningful oral traditions, so I believe when you talk about the Pakistani tradition itself, you see the folklore that is very common in Pakistan is that folk tales have been prevalent in Balochia. And when you talk about the Balochi poets or writers, not basically writers, the ones who have made literature, you get to know that they had folk tales. And obviously, their historical significance was true, but also some were mythical. So there's always the sense that the writer or the poet has this sense of spiritual identity. In every Balochi literature you see that your poet is more connected to the outer world, he is in a spiritual realm. Most of the Balochi poets were Darwish or Sufi. So, this is how tradition comes forward. But again, when you talk about one particular oral tradition or folklore it is Shah Mureed and Hanyi, it's their love story. Again, it is one of the epic ballads of the Balochi language. Again, it is a love story, but towards the end you see that emphasis is laid on your spiritual journey. It's the spiritual journey of Shah Mureed, how he rises from this love for the material and human nature, to a very high level of love for God. Like he is captivated, and he gives away his life. And it also says that Shah Mureed just vanished off into the unknown and they say that he is still alive. So there is this specific Balochi phrase which says Ta Ke Jahanast Shah Mureed Hum Salamast So as long as the world is there, Shah Murid is there. So it's about the immortality of Shaykh Murid. So the tale goes like Shaykh Murid was one of the sons of a chief of the Kahir tribe if I'm not wrong. So the chief was Shah Mubarak and Shah Mureed was his son. So we know that you might be familiar with this thing that we have this tradition, not quite common now, but in Balochistan, you are like, give away your daughter, say that my daughter is for your son. So Shah Mureed and Hanyi were friends from their childhood and they were like this. Like, Shah Mureed was her fiancee and he was deeply in love with Hanyi. So, Shah Mureed himself was known for his horsemanship, for his swordsmanship, and his archery. So, there's one particular title given to him as Lord of the Iron Bow. So, he was known as the Lord of the Iron Bow because, you know, he had this iron bow which he could like, he had the perfect shot with it. No other soldier could use that iron bow because it was really heavy. So it was told about the strength of Sheikh Murid, that he is so strong and only he can manage using the iron bow. So the thing is because of this, Sheikh Murid was like the head of the army, which was Mir Chakar Rin, the chief of the army, he was with Sheikh Murid because Sheikh Murid was the strongest. So, that was a good position. So, the thing goes again with the Balochi tradition and culture. Balochi tradition is that when you call, call is when you give a vow and you say, that I will not lie no matter what you ask me. So, you don't back off from what you said. You have to say. You do anything and you don't lie. Like, you keep your promise no matter what. So, this is something really, really, really prevalent in the Balochi culture. You don't back down from your calls. So again, there was this thing that one day, Shah Mureed and Veer Chakar, they were back on their way from some sort of a, like... They say that it was a fight with some other tribal groups and they were on their way back. So again there is a tradition that you cannot meet your fiance before your wedding, which is still very common. So both Shah Mureed and Mir Chakar were engaged. So they chose to go to each other's fiance's house to get a drink of water. So Shah Mureed went to Mir Chakar's house, his fiance's house to drink water and Mir Chakar went to Hanyi's house. So the thing is that Hanyi was known for her chastity and her intelligence. When Mir Chakar went there, well when he gave water to Shah Mureed, Mir Chakar's fans, he just gulped it in one single gulp. He finished it in one gulp and he fell sick. Because obviously on an empty stomach he drank too much water and he fell ill. Whereas on the other hand, Hanyi was intelligent enough to add straw in the pot of water so that Mir Chakar drinks water slowly and carefully. Mir Chakar realized, he didn't realize it before, when he came out and saw that Shah Mureed said I drank all the water in one gulp, and I was feeling unwell, he just reflected back on Hanyi's intelligence that she was intelligent enough to kind of leave in clean leaves and straws so that I can drink water slowly and carefully and I don't feel sick. So this thing was something which laid back again, a celebration of a victory. All the soldiers were there and everyone gave a call. So Mir Chakar was kind of asking everyone to give a call, a vow, that what will they do, that they will not back down. So one of the soldiers, said that I would cut off the head of someone who would touch my beard. Again, it's a part of the culture that the beard is a very prominent or very masculine element of the Balochi men, patriarchal. In the olden days, if you touch a beard, it is considered a crime or sin. If you cut a beard, it is considered a crime or sin. It is a tradition in the culture that a man's beard is considered a prominent feature. You can say that his ego and masculinity are all based on that. So one of the soldiers said, if someone touches my beard, I would slit his head. So he kept this vow. Another solider said if some camel from another tribe entered my herd, I wouldn't give it back. This is my call. And obviously back then your herds were part of your livestock. It was a source of your living. So if I had a camel, I would never give it back, even if it was a question of life or death. Shah Mureed said if I get to be wedded to Hanyi, I would do it anything asked of me on my wedding day. I would do whatever he asked me to do. So Mir Chakar, he had this thing that he tested all these soldiers. So there was a time when the soldier who said, whoever touches my beard, I will cut his head. He eventually ended up cutting his own son's head for touching his beard. And then we had the other one, the camel one, there was a dispute, the camel came and he resisted from giving it back to the owner. When it came to Shah Mureed, Mir Chakar, there are again two versions of this. Some say that it was a wedding ceremony and Mir Chakar had prepared a splendid wedding ceremony for it. Then he chose to challenge his vow. In other versions, it is said that he did not talk about this in the ceremony of marriage. He said that if someone asks me for anything, I will give it to them. So Mir Chakar asked for the hand of Hanyi, Hanyi who was the love of Shah Mureed. So when this was said, obviously Shah Mureed couldn't back off from his vow or from his call. Again, it comes to your ego, your masculinity which is celebrated in Baloch culture. He backed off from, you can say engagement with Hanyi, and Hanyi and Mir Chakar got married. So, when they got married, Mir Chakar was never satisfied with the marriage. Obviously, he was just testing Shah Mureed and he had no intention of marrying Hanyi. He had no such infatuation or love for Hanyi. He had respect for how intelligent she was but nothing else. So, he wasn't quite happy with how the marriage was and how Shah Mureed was upset with this. However, Shah Mureed on the other hand was devastated. He became a fakir, a peer. And he used to wander around in horrible attire. He used to write love poems for Hanyi. People used to say that this is poetry for Mir Chakir's wife. So obviously, again, this is something that culturally is not acceptable. So his father said, stop doing this and this would harm you in so many ways. But he couldn't stop. Obviously, he had a strange sense of denial, sense of regret that he lost the love of his life. He kind of wandered off to, they say, Arabia. He had been in Mecca for months. But eventually after a few years he came back. He came back and people could not recognize him because of how he had physically changed, his appearance, his clothes, everything had changed. So people would not recognize him. When someone would say that this is Shah Mureed, they would mock and laugh at him. That the Shah Mureed was so strong, so powerful, this can't be. Like, give us the proof. So there was this, again, there was this challenge of archery. So in that, they brought the iron bow of Shah Mureed. and he came and took the iron bow and he shot three back to back arrows from his iron bow, so people realized that no one else could have picked it up again, there was still a little doubt so they brought Hanyi, because she knew him since childhood so they said, like, give us proof that he is Shah Mureed so Hanyi said that he has scars on his body one was on his ankle, which was attached to my bracelet and they did identify the scars and they realized that he is Shah Mureed. Now that Shah Mureed came back, Mir Chakar had this sense of satisfaction that, now he is back, I can give his... Like they say, I give back your trust. So he talked to Hanyi that the whole idea of this marriage was to challenge his call, Shah Mureed's call had to be challenged and he did not back off and he agreed. He said, “I feel like you guys are made for one another so you need to reconcile and I will divorce you and you can go back to Shah Mureed”. So this is what happened, I divorced my cousin and Hanyi went back to Shah Mureed because Hanyi also loved Shah Mureed. But the thing is when she went back to Shah Mureed, he denied to get back with her because he said now I am in a state of some very immortal love and I cannot come back to the level of worldly affairs. I have come to a very transient level, so I cannot come back to this worldly materialistic love. So, Shai Mureed wandered off, and it is the same thing, that so that the world is safe, he is out there because he is the immortal Sufi, celebrating his love for God. He found himself. So, in Balochi tradition, there is always the celebration of spirituality, of your connection with yourself and with God. Be it through love stories, be it through other narrations again, we say the father of Balochi literature, which is Mastavakkali. Again, if I ever read poetry in his Balochi, I wouldn't understand a word because again it is one of the dying dialects or versions of the Balochi language Which we don't understand and there are no initiatives taken for its preservation But again Mastavakkali was a dervish and his poetry was again a cause of his love for Samo. Again, they were a tragic lot too, but every tragedy had this instance where they would go to this spiritual love for God and they would search, they would go and search for themselves out in the world.Ighna: Thank you for showing us so much detail. traditions like that but like
you said there's this specific trait that is associated with Balochi literature that at the end of it, focuses a lot on spirituality and spiritual love so it was really interesting. With literature here in Punjab it focuses on wordlely love, like how much Ranja loved Heer. So, can you share with us some specific terms that you use in your native language to address your mother, your father, grandfather, grandmother? Any specific terms like bhai, bhen, etc.Lalein: For mother its Maas, but for the Makrani dialect its Maat, with an
emphasis on the t sound at the end. For father its Pidir, they call father Pid. For grandfather its Piruk And then for grandmother, it's Baluk. And then we have for brother, it's Brath. And for sister, it's Guhar. Now, talking about directly addressing your mother, we say Ummah. Like, Ammi or Mom, instead of Mom, you say Ummah. And for a father, it's Baba, obviously, which is common. For your grandfather, it's either Baba Aziz or Baba Buzurg. So that's how you like, you say Baba Buzurg how are you. Like we used to call our nana, baba Aziz. Like Aziz hain. Aziz in sense age and again like Aziz. Brahat and Guhar, are sister and brother. Oh yeah, uncle and aunt. For uncle it is Naako. And for aunt it's Throu.Ighna: How do you think your language could be preserved? What efforts do you
think need to be made in order to make sure that the upcoming generations are more linked to their native language, to the traditions that are associated with their native languages and try to make it so that it remains a part of the discourse that is available to young people who are Balochi.Lalein: This is something I always kind of ponder on and I wonder that Balochis
literature, Balochi language in a few years time would it even exist, would it even be there because I cannot see the effort be it on the government level, the institutional level or on the culture. It's something of a concern that such a rich language, such a rich history has been there for ages and ages and ages. So you are a little concerned that where would the language go in future, in few years time, where would your language reach? Because even talking about these oral traditions, all these folk tales, all these poetries have been orally narrated from one person to another and then you come from one generation to another. Obviously, the authenticity changes from one generation to the other. There are variations and different versions. Everyone puts their own version. As I emphasized on the Shah Mureed InHanyi one, some say there was no wedding ceremony, and someone said that within the light of the moment, someone could ask him for anything, Shah Mureed would give it. So there are variations. So I believe when it comes to literature, preserve the originality of the text. So when it comes to the idea of Balochi literature, when it's oral, you have to make sure that you have some source, you have some material element, that you preserve it in text. You make institutions, educational institutions, make Balochi common for like, secondary level education, which is the governmental board. It’s already an option but its not compulsory, it's not obligatory. And after that, the significance of learning the language or learning literature in that language kind of dies away. After that, you get to your university level, or even college level, and you're not bound to learn the language. So I believe on this level, it should be important that these things be seen in any language. You have to make sure and incorporate them in their educational system. Now, when you see that in Pakistan, you have the idea that you have French, German, Korean, Chinese, Spanish, Italian, all these languages are taught, even Turkish is taught. But when it comes to your own native languages, you know how many languages are there in Pakistan. And sadly, there are some which you can say are dying languages which come in the upper northern areas. How many languages are there in them who have no speakers or who have no tradition preserved. So similarly Balochi also comes there that I believe it should be incorporated in the educational system, it should be incorporated in mass media, not in television, considering that the age is such that there is technology and media is more relevant, through media you can communicate the significance of something. So I believe through media you should make such advertisements, language where the culture, the tradition and the language specifically concerned with the literature in that language is preserved. Because when you talk about the Balochi literature, it was written in the Sulemani Balochi. And when you talk about Sulemani Balochi, being a Balochi speaker myself and being a native Balochi speaker, I cannot understand the language and maybe in one sentence I will say a few words and say that I do understand these words. Everything else is different. So this is a huge gap and something I feel like is a failure for us as a generation that we cannot preserve the rich history and rich culture which is like, again, the same thing, you have found it in a miras, it's a treasure and it needs to be treasured which is not happening. So I believe that in youth only there should be a sense that you work on your language and you kind of celebrate the roots to your language focus on how you can give back to your community, to your identity as a collective identity. So that's what it's about.Ighna: You mentioned media, right? So media as a tool to preserve language is
very important. Do you think the whole idea of media that the younger generation consumes also plays a part in why they are not that interested in their own language, why they feel like the content that is available to them, the content that they consume is usually not in... it's not preferred to be in a certain regional language. So how common is that back in your hometown?Lalien: When it comes to Baloch language, I believe... obviously again, I should
compare myself as a generation to the young children now, the kids of today. Yes, there is a sense of detachment from your roots, from your language. They are more into learning English, not even Urdu, but directly in English. Otherwise, we would have known that our Urdu is so bad. So you are not working on that, you are going directly to English. Because the media and your society portray this thing that if you are well spoken in English language, and if you speak in this language, then you are a good person. The media is kind of implying this sense of inferiority to your identity which obviously disassociates people from their true self which comes from your language. So I believe that yes, this is something that the media shows you and doesn't put much emphasis on languages, your identity, your cultures In Pakistani media, it is prevalent that Western influence is isolating their culture. They are trying to incorporate Western trends and traditions and elements into their lifestyle. So, I believe that yes, media plays this kind of negative role that it is taking away your sense of identity and kind of celebrating your language and your culture. But I believe that if we have a little sense that we have to preserve our language, if they work towards it, it's the best option out there. There is a platform which you can use in so many ways to preserve your language.Ighna: So, what do you think as a speaker of the community, what efforts do you
think people should make on an individual level?Lalein: Well for me, I believe, because Balochi traditions, oral traditions and
the storytelling that goes on in the book, it's very common in Balochi households. I mean, in every household, we have been sitting since childhood, stories, historical tragedies. So there is this thing I believe that at an individual level it is possible that your older generation, the true treasures of these narratives and stories, sit with them and if you are educated enough that you can write in English or your own language. First of all, obviously your beauty is in your originality. Yes, exactly. So sit with them and write and make sure that word to word, whatever kids they have, traditions or oral stories or historical epics, heroic tales, tragedies, you start writing them on an individual level. Like at least documenting is really important. Like it's really important, documentation itself is really important. So this can happen on an individual level. Secondly, when you do documentation yourself, you show it, people around you also get a sense that yes, we should do this too, especially younger generation. They are always curious to do something that older people do. They have a hunger that we will do this too. So it's important to show them that this is important. If learning English, Urdu, or any other foreign language is important learning it because Balochi itself is a very diverse and a very vast language. So there are so many aspects in it which I feel I need to explore and I hope that I get that platform in life that I really work on its preservation and its exploration before it dies out as a language because then it will be a failure as a community, meaning at the community level and at the individual level that if no one could do it then why didn't you do it yourself? So the same thing must happen. It should start at an individual level. Some effort should be made. So that we can do more on a collective level. Exactly.Ighna: Would you like to share any favourite word, any quote, any saying that is
common? That is common in Balochia or with its meaning which you like?Lalein: Well, I cannot recall some favourite words but there is one thing that I
believe is something that if I talk to people about this, they will feel like why are you so dramatic, why do you talk like this, who talks like this in a normal everyday life. So it's really common with Balochi language that you talk in an exaggerated way. For example, I will give you an instance. It's this thing that you are considered very bad in our culture. Like if you're sitting and I sit in front with my back facing you, right? So like it's considered rude, really rude. So whenever there is an instance where you don't have an option, that there is no other place to sit, so you are sitting in front of someone, so you often excuse them and you apologize that I am sitting in front of you. So in Baloch, the person in front of whom you are sitting, gul push to dem na dauri. So it basically means that a flower does not have a back or front. Now, this is a normal conversation. Now, I will sit in front of my mother, or I will sit in front of an aunt. So she will say, if someone hears, they will say, what is this? In a normal conversation, they will say, it's okay, son. But no, they would always say gul push to dem na dauri. A flower does not have a back or front. So I'm more than happy that you are sitting in front of me. It doesn't matter if you have a back on my side. For instance, if there is an event or a gathering, and a person excuses that he couldn't come or he didn't come. So you would always mention this phrase, where you would say that your place was empty, and no one could replace that place. And we were expecting you, and no one could fill that void, that you know emptiness, it was specific to you and as soon as you come it would go up and it would have bloomed. So again that is it. So I find these really beautiful. Another thing is how we say like for example, if you break something or if you have done something bad to someone, you will go and apologize say something like it's not more precious then you. They would often say, Shumai sir, may you be well. I mean, there are so many phrases that are normally used in everyday instances. So, what else? Yeah, now for example you got a good result or you were expecting a loved one and he came. You are extremely delighted and happy. So someone who is witnessing this thing, they would see the light in your eyes. They would always say, cham sumai roshan bhen, may your eyes always lighten up like this. And again there is an instance where someone compliments you, that you are looking beautiful. So the person taking the compliment would say, aa chumae nazar ae shani, this is the beauty of your eyes, that you are looking at me like this. It's really common that we talk like this all the time. So the words are beautiful in themselves. And I believe that when you think that they are commonly used, beautiful poetic gestures are used. And you don't realize that until you are sitting here, sometimes I realize that we are like so celebrate the language and the person sitting with us. We value moments, small things. So I believe through language you show what you value, you value people, you value feelings. So yes, that's it.Ighna: That is very beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing. This is probably
my favorite part of everything that you shared. It's really beautiful. Yeah, I'll keep thinking about it. It's very pretty. So anyways, moving on. Okay, so what was your favorite food growing up which you ate, something specific to your region, which specifically your mother makes, which you really love, something special about the recipe, anything that you would like to share?Lalien: Well, when it comes to Balochi cuisine, something I have had a lot of
trouble with when I came here in Lahore was the food. Because we don't opt for spices. So here I always had these stomach complaints that my stomach is burning, this is happening, that is happening, I have eaten spice, there is this thing. So when I talk about my favorite food to the people here, they would be like, what is this? There's nothing in it. How do you like this? So there's this thing which we call thireeth. Thireeth is where you make small pieces of flatbread chapati and you put shorba in it. There's shorba in which there's chicken, chicken broth, and again, there are the natural flavors, there are green chilies, and there's black pepper, and along with that, like you put it in a tray and let it sit for a while. It becomes soft and then you put fried onions on it. So, thireeth is my favorite dish. We have khurut. Khurroud is basically dried, fermented, milk or dried curd. When we make it, it's basically made into rounded balls. They're hard, sour, and very salty. But again, when khuroud is made, I love eating it, it's very hard like a stone, but I like it a lot. When you make khurroud, you soak it in water and when it's soft, you either blend it or you grind it and make its paste. Like you have dahi baingan here, it's very different from dahi baingan, but I can just give you some sort of an image and thireeth can be made with khurroud also with chickpeas and beans and whole wheat again we have in Balochi dishes we have Kurnu, basically when you make Sajji Kebab the Sajji I ate here in Lahore is very different from how we have it there. So there is this thing, when the sajji is being made, the coals on the sides are usually rounded like stones, big big pieces of stones on which you can you put flour on it. So like flour is being cooked on a stone like a rounded ball. So Kurnu is called that bread that is cooked with that heat and then you eat it with Sajji. Again we also have Ash. We have Khadi Kebab. So I think you are familiar with Khadi Kebab? So again like you said it will be very different. It will be very different. I guess I have eaten that too here. But I feel that people should eat. After coming there, this is how it is. You make a well or underground place where you put the whole meat, goat or lamb with rice inside the stomach. I think you cook it all day and when it comes out, it's just amazing.Ighna: Thank you so much for sharing that.
00:02:0000:01:00Transcription
Ighna: So, we’re here to conduct this interview for the project “Reimagining
Linguistic Diversity” at FCCU which is being managed by Sir Adeel. I have Lalein Baloch here with me. Hi Lalein, how are you?Lalein: Hello Ighna. I’m fine, how are you?
Ighna: I’m good. So, should we start?
Lalein: Yes.
Ighna: Tell us a little bit about your language.
Lalein: I’m a Baloch speaker, and we are native to Balochistan as well as the
Sistan province of Iran and a part of Afghanistan, so the language is an Indo-Iranian language, and the dialect that I speak that Drukhshani direct is derived from the Irani language. About 80% of our language is derived from the Irani or Persian language. There are other dialects, like the Sulemani dialect or the Makarani dialect. They are different from how we speak Balochi. However, there are obviously some linguistic similarities. The language itself is much common in the province of Balochistan, however, when I came here, to Punjab, I realized there are some Baloch speakers here in the south of Punjab. But their Balochi is very different than ours and leans more towards the Siraiki dimensions. So, that’s it.Ighna: You’re saying that there are some changes between the dialects.
Lalein: Yea.
Ighna: So, I had a question related to that. As a native speaker of Balochi,
when you came here to FCCU, it’s a very multilingual community here in FC, so there are people from many different places, and they have many different native languages, so they speak very differently. How did that impact you and your language use? Specifically, your language use of Balochi, versus what you use at home. Were there any differences that people noticed when you went back home? Did anyone say something along the lines of Lalein speaks differently now?Lalein: Well, I cannot recall myself changing my language when I came to Lahore
and when I went back to Quetta. But I remember this instance, when my sister was in NCA, she had a really obvious change in the way she spoke and the words she used. We used to mock her, saying things like where did you learn to speak like this, what are you even saying. There was something. However, when I came to FC, the thing is when it comes to FCCU. We know that there is a lot of diversity here. You have loads and loads of communities and ethnicities, even religious groups. This in and of itself is a very prominent factor. For me, I’m the only Baloch girl here in FC. I hope more come here because it's very important for exposure and self-growth. I hope that when I go back to Quetta or Balochistan, I get to tell those girls to go and explore FCCU and outside Balochistan for your personal growth. For me, the biggest gap was when I came to Lahore, I couldn’t find anyone to speak Balochi with. It was something I craved. I just wanted to talk to someone in my language, either my family back home or just anyone. There was a positive side. My sister is here, I used to go there over on the weekends, and I used to be like at least there is someone who I could talk to in Balochi. There is one thing that automatically I was inclined towards people from Gilgit Baltistan and the Pashtun belt of Balochistan and Waziristan. I don’t know, maybe it's an innate desire to want and feel more comfortable with people who speak like you because you are disconnected from your region, from your land and you’re in an alien place. That sense of alienation brings you together with people you weren’t acquainted with before. That was a growth factor for me as I hadn’t been someone who got along with communicated with other people. I got to explore that here. Different ethnicities and groups, trying to find comfort for myself. I had this sense that I needed to communicate, and I understood oh this is what happens in Punjab, Siraki is spoken here. I used to think I knew Punjabi at one point but the moment someone spoke it here, I just stood there confused. I didn’t understand it.Ighna: I think it’s a very important point you bring up. It's very vital in how
it shapes you and your identity. Your native to the language you speak is related to how your language shapes your sense of self and your identity, especially when you were growing up in Balochistan.Lalein: I think it's like this one word in Baloch “Neras”. This is something
that comes from generation to generation. The honor of your language. The word is “Myyar”. The myyar of the Balochi language is something we carry from children. There has never been a sense of dissociating from our language. I believe the language plays a vital role in shaping our identity. Be it a woman, a boy, a man, a girl. Everyone has their distinct identity, and the Balochi language has done a lot in rendering that. Identity and sense of self. So, I think since childhood in my house we were supposed to speak in Balochi. There was no chance that you go for Urdu or English in our house. We knew in school we were going to be exposed to those languages, so our parents encouraged us to use Balochi at home. So that is something we’ve been doing for generations. So, this is something the community does. You have this sense of acceptance and love for the language. You celebrate it and your culture. Every house has this sense that I must use my language. That I must take it to my generation. Your language is your identity. So, when you talk about being in Quetta, it’s a very diverse area. There are Baloch, Hazar, Pashtuns, Barhavi, and some Sindhi people during migration times there. So, it’s very diverse. You don’t feel secluded. There is a sense of acceptance that oh they are Baloch. Pashtuns talk in Baloch; Balochi talk in Pashtun. So you don’t feel like I need to learn something besides Balochi. It's an intermingled society so you accept and respect others' identities.Ighna: Can you share particularly meaningful oral traditions or any stories from
your childhood which is associated with your hometown or something that you believe should be preserved so future generations can learn them?Lalein: Balcohi literature is of an oral tradition. The older generation tell
the younger generation, folk tales and stories. So, there is this thing that I remember from my childhood. It's one story where the wolf and the sheep, the Balochi version of that is Anerak and Paneerak. So Anerak and Paneerak are the two sheep, and the wolf tries to deceive them by implying that it's their mother on the door and they need to open the door for him. And you know, everything works. And I remember my mother used to always tell this story and I used to ask her, please tell me that story, please tell me about Aneerak, Paneerak. And it was like, I knew it word for word, but I don't know, I had this thing, that please tell me that story. But when it comes to particular, or you can say, meaningful oral traditions, so I believe when you talk about the Pakistani tradition itself, you see the folklore that is very common in Pakistan is that folk tales have been prevalent in Balochia. And when you talk about the Balochi poets or writers, not basically writers, the ones who have made literature, you get to know that they had folk tales. And obviously, their historical significance was true, but also some were mythical. So there's always the sense that the writer or the poet has this sense of spiritual identity. In every Balochi literature you see that your poet is more connected to the outer world, he is in a spiritual realm. Most of the Balochi poets were Darwish or Sufi. So, this is how tradition comes forward. But again, when you talk about one particular oral tradition or folklore it is Shah Mureed and Hanyi, it's their love story. Again, it is one of the epic ballads of the Balochi language. Again, it is a love story, but towards the end you see that emphasis is laid on your spiritual journey. It's the spiritual journey of Shah Mureed, how he rises from this love for the material and human nature, to a very high level of love for God. Like he is captivated, and he gives away his life. And it also says that Shah Mureed just vanished off into the unknown and they say that he is still alive. So there is this specific Balochi phrase which says Ta Ke Jahanast Shah Mureed Hum Salamast So as long as the world is there, Shah Murid is there. So it's about the immortality of Shaykh Murid. So the tale goes like Shaykh Murid was one of the sons of a chief of the Kahir tribe if I'm not wrong. So the chief was Shah Mubarak and Shah Mureed was his son. So we know that you might be familiar with this thing that we have this tradition, not quite common now, but in Balochistan, you are like, give away your daughter, say that my daughter is for your son. So Shah Mureed and Hanyi were friends from their childhood and they were like this. Like, Shah Mureed was her fiancee and he was deeply in love with Hanyi. So, Shah Mureed himself was known for his horsemanship, for his swordsmanship, and his archery. So, there's one particular title given to him as Lord of the Iron Bow. So, he was known as the Lord of the Iron Bow because, you know, he had this iron bow which he could like, he had the perfect shot with it. No other soldier could use that iron bow because it was really heavy. So it was told about the strength of Sheikh Murid, that he is so strong and only he can manage using the iron bow. So the thing is because of this, Sheikh Murid was like the head of the army, which was Mir Chakar Rin, the chief of the army, he was with Sheikh Murid because Sheikh Murid was the strongest. So, that was a good position. So, the thing goes again with the Balochi tradition and culture. Balochi tradition is that when you call, call is when you give a vow and you say, that I will not lie no matter what you ask me. So, you don't back off from what you said. You have to say. You do anything and you don't lie. Like, you keep your promise no matter what. So, this is something really, really, really prevalent in the Balochi culture. You don't back down from your calls. So again, there was this thing that one day, Shah Mureed and Veer Chakar, they were back on their way from some sort of a, like... They say that it was a fight with some other tribal groups and they were on their way back. So again there is a tradition that you cannot meet your fiance before your wedding, which is still very common. So both Shah Mureed and Mir Chakar were engaged. So they chose to go to each other's fiance's house to get a drink of water. So Shah Mureed went to Mir Chakar's house, his fiance's house to drink water and Mir Chakar went to Hanyi's house. So the thing is that Hanyi was known for her chastity and her intelligence. When Mir Chakar went there, well when he gave water to Shah Mureed, Mir Chakar's fans, he just gulped it in one single gulp. He finished it in one gulp and he fell sick. Because obviously on an empty stomach he drank too much water and he fell ill. Whereas on the other hand, Hanyi was intelligent enough to add straw in the pot of water so that Mir Chakar drinks water slowly and carefully. Mir Chakar realized, he didn't realize it before, when he came out and saw that Shah Mureed said I drank all the water in one gulp, and I was feeling unwell, he just reflected back on Hanyi's intelligence that she was intelligent enough to kind of leave in clean leaves and straws so that I can drink water slowly and carefully and I don't feel sick. So this thing was something which laid back again, a celebration of a victory. All the soldiers were there and everyone gave a call. So Mir Chakar was kind of asking everyone to give a call, a vow, that what will they do, that they will not back down. So one of the soldiers, said that I would cut off the head of someone who would touch my beard. Again, it's a part of the culture that the beard is a very prominent or very masculine element of the Balochi men, patriarchal. In the olden days, if you touch a beard, it is considered a crime or sin. If you cut a beard, it is considered a crime or sin. It is a tradition in the culture that a man's beard is considered a prominent feature. You can say that his ego and masculinity are all based on that. So one of the soldiers said, if someone touches my beard, I would slit his head. So he kept this vow. Another solider said if some camel from another tribe entered my herd, I wouldn't give it back. This is my call. And obviously back then your herds were part of your livestock. It was a source of your living. So if I had a camel, I would never give it back, even if it was a question of life or death. Shah Mureed said if I get to be wedded to Hanyi, I would do it anything asked of me on my wedding day. I would do whatever he asked me to do. So Mir Chakar, he had this thing that he tested all these soldiers. So there was a time when the soldier who said, whoever touches my beard, I will cut his head. He eventually ended up cutting his own son's head for touching his beard. And then we had the other one, the camel one, there was a dispute, the camel came and he resisted from giving it back to the owner. When it came to Shah Mureed, Mir Chakar, there are again two versions of this. Some say that it was a wedding ceremony and Mir Chakar had prepared a splendid wedding ceremony for it. Then he chose to challenge his vow. In other versions, it is said that he did not talk about this in the ceremony of marriage. He said that if someone asks me for anything, I will give it to them. So Mir Chakar asked for the hand of Hanyi, Hanyi who was the love of Shah Mureed. So when this was said, obviously Shah Mureed couldn't back off from his vow or from his call. Again, it comes to your ego, your masculinity which is celebrated in Baloch culture. He backed off from, you can say engagement with Hanyi, and Hanyi and Mir Chakar got married. So, when they got married, Mir Chakar was never satisfied with the marriage. Obviously, he was just testing Shah Mureed and he had no intention of marrying Hanyi. He had no such infatuation or love for Hanyi. He had respect for how intelligent she was but nothing else. So, he wasn't quite happy with how the marriage was and how Shah Mureed was upset with this. However, Shah Mureed on the other hand was devastated. He became a fakir, a peer. And he used to wander around in horrible attire. He used to write love poems for Hanyi. People used to say that this is poetry for Mir Chakir's wife. So obviously, again, this is something that culturally is not acceptable. So his father said, stop doing this and this would harm you in so many ways. But he couldn't stop. Obviously, he had a strange sense of denial, sense of regret that he lost the love of his life. He kind of wandered off to, they say, Arabia. He had been in Mecca for months. But eventually after a few years he came back. He came back and people could not recognize him because of how he had physically changed, his appearance, his clothes, everything had changed. So people would not recognize him. When someone would say that this is Shah Mureed, they would mock and laugh at him. That the Shah Mureed was so strong, so powerful, this can't be. Like, give us the proof. So there was this, again, there was this challenge of archery. So in that, they brought the iron bow of Shah Mureed. and he came and took the iron bow and he shot three back to back arrows from his iron bow, so people realized that no one else could have picked it up again, there was still a little doubt so they brought Hanyi, because she knew him since childhood so they said, like, give us proof that he is Shah Mureed so Hanyi said that he has scars on his body one was on his ankle, which was attached to my bracelet and they did identify the scars and they realized that he is Shah Mureed. Now that Shah Mureed came back, Mir Chakar had this sense of satisfaction that, now he is back, I can give his... Like they say, I give back your trust. So he talked to Hanyi that the whole idea of this marriage was to challenge his call, Shah Mureed's call had to be challenged and he did not back off and he agreed. He said, “I feel like you guys are made for one another so you need to reconcile and I will divorce you and you can go back to Shah Mureed”. So this is what happened, I divorced my cousin and Hanyi went back to Shah Mureed because Hanyi also loved Shah Mureed. But the thing is when she went back to Shah Mureed, he denied to get back with her because he said now I am in a state of some very immortal love and I cannot come back to the level of worldly affairs. I have come to a very transient level, so I cannot come back to this worldly materialistic love. So, Shai Mureed wandered off, and it is the same thing, that so that the world is safe, he is out there because he is the immortal Sufi, celebrating his love for God. He found himself. So, in Balochi tradition, there is always the celebration of spirituality, of your connection with yourself and with God. Be it through love stories, be it through other narrations again, we say the father of Balochi literature, which is Mastavakkali. Again, if I ever read poetry in his Balochi, I wouldn't understand a word because again it is one of the dying dialects or versions of the Balochi language Which we don't understand and there are no initiatives taken for its preservation But again Mastavakkali was a dervish and his poetry was again a cause of his love for Samo. Again, they were a tragic lot too, but every tragedy had this instance where they would go to this spiritual love for God and they would search, they would go and search for themselves out in the world.Ighna: Thank you for showing us so much detail. traditions like that but like
you said there's this specific trait that is associated with Balochi literature that at the end of it, focuses a lot on spirituality and spiritual love so it was really interesting. With literature here in Punjab it focuses on wordlely love, like how much Ranja loved Heer. So, can you share with us some specific terms that you use in your native language to address your mother, your father, grandfather, grandmother? Any specific terms like bhai, bhen, etc.Lalein: For mother its Maas, but for the Makrani dialect its Maat, with an
emphasis on the t sound at the end. For father its Pidir, they call father Pid. For grandfather its Piruk And then for grandmother, it's Baluk. And then we have for brother, it's Brath. And for sister, it's Guhar. Now, talking about directly addressing your mother, we say Ummah. Like, Ammi or Mom, instead of Mom, you say Ummah. And for a father, it's Baba, obviously, which is common. For your grandfather, it's either Baba Aziz or Baba Buzurg. So that's how you like, you say Baba Buzurg how are you. Like we used to call our nana, baba Aziz. Like Aziz hain. Aziz in sense age and again like Aziz. Brahat and Guhar, are sister and brother. Oh yeah, uncle and aunt. For uncle it is Naako. And for aunt it's Throu.Ighna: How do you think your language could be preserved? What efforts do you
think need to be made in order to make sure that the upcoming generations are more linked to their native language, to the traditions that are associated with their native languages and try to make it so that it remains a part of the discourse that is available to young people who are Balochi.Lalein: This is something I always kind of ponder on and I wonder that Balochis
literature, Balochi language in a few years time would it even exist, would it even be there because I cannot see the effort be it on the government level, the institutional level or on the culture. It's something of a concern that such a rich language, such a rich history has been there for ages and ages and ages. So you are a little concerned that where would the language go in future, in few years time, where would your language reach? Because even talking about these oral traditions, all these folk tales, all these poetries have been orally narrated from one person to another and then you come from one generation to another. Obviously, the authenticity changes from one generation to the other. There are variations and different versions. Everyone puts their own version. As I emphasized on the Shah Mureed InHanyi one, some say there was no wedding ceremony, and someone said that within the light of the moment, someone could ask him for anything, Shah Mureed would give it. So there are variations. So I believe when it comes to literature, preserve the originality of the text. So when it comes to the idea of Balochi literature, when it's oral, you have to make sure that you have some source, you have some material element, that you preserve it in text. You make institutions, educational institutions, make Balochi common for like, secondary level education, which is the governmental board. It’s already an option but its not compulsory, it's not obligatory. And after that, the significance of learning the language or learning literature in that language kind of dies away. After that, you get to your university level, or even college level, and you're not bound to learn the language. So I believe on this level, it should be important that these things be seen in any language. You have to make sure and incorporate them in their educational system. Now, when you see that in Pakistan, you have the idea that you have French, German, Korean, Chinese, Spanish, Italian, all these languages are taught, even Turkish is taught. But when it comes to your own native languages, you know how many languages are there in Pakistan. And sadly, there are some which you can say are dying languages which come in the upper northern areas. How many languages are there in them who have no speakers or who have no tradition preserved. So similarly Balochi also comes there that I believe it should be incorporated in the educational system, it should be incorporated in mass media, not in television, considering that the age is such that there is technology and media is more relevant, through media you can communicate the significance of something. So I believe through media you should make such advertisements, language where the culture, the tradition and the language specifically concerned with the literature in that language is preserved. Because when you talk about the Balochi literature, it was written in the Sulemani Balochi. And when you talk about Sulemani Balochi, being a Balochi speaker myself and being a native Balochi speaker, I cannot understand the language and maybe in one sentence I will say a few words and say that I do understand these words. Everything else is different. So this is a huge gap and something I feel like is a failure for us as a generation that we cannot preserve the rich history and rich culture which is like, again, the same thing, you have found it in a miras, it's a treasure and it needs to be treasured which is not happening. So I believe that in youth only there should be a sense that you work on your language and you kind of celebrate the roots to your language focus on how you can give back to your community, to your identity as a collective identity. So that's what it's about.Ighna: You mentioned media, right? So media as a tool to preserve language is
very important. Do you think the whole idea of media that the younger generation consumes also plays a part in why they are not that interested in their own language, why they feel like the content that is available to them, the content that they consume is usually not in... it's not preferred to be in a certain regional language. So how common is that back in your hometown?Lalien: When it comes to Baloch language, I believe... obviously again, I should
compare myself as a generation to the young children now, the kids of today. Yes, there is a sense of detachment from your roots, from your language. They are more into learning English, not even Urdu, but directly in English. Otherwise, we would have known that our Urdu is so bad. So you are not working on that, you are going directly to English. Because the media and your society portray this thing that if you are well spoken in English language, and if you speak in this language, then you are a good person. The media is kind of implying this sense of inferiority to your identity which obviously disassociates people from their true self which comes from your language. So I believe that yes, this is something that the media shows you and doesn't put much emphasis on languages, your identity, your cultures In Pakistani media, it is prevalent that Western influence is isolating their culture. They are trying to incorporate Western trends and traditions and elements into their lifestyle. So, I believe that yes, media plays this kind of negative role that it is taking away your sense of identity and kind of celebrating your language and your culture. But I believe that if we have a little sense that we have to preserve our language, if they work towards it, it's the best option out there. There is a platform which you can use in so many ways to preserve your language.Ighna: So, what do you think as a speaker of the community, what efforts do you
think people should make on an individual level?Lalein: Well for me, I believe, because Balochi traditions, oral traditions and
the storytelling that goes on in the book, it's very common in Balochi households. I mean, in every household, we have been sitting since childhood, stories, historical tragedies. So there is this thing I believe that at an individual level it is possible that your older generation, the true treasures of these narratives and stories, sit with them and if you are educated enough that you can write in English or your own language. First of all, obviously your beauty is in your originality. Yes, exactly. So sit with them and write and make sure that word to word, whatever kids they have, traditions or oral stories or historical epics, heroic tales, tragedies, you start writing them on an individual level. Like at least documenting is really important. Like it's really important, documentation itself is really important. So this can happen on an individual level. Secondly, when you do documentation yourself, you show it, people around you also get a sense that yes, we should do this too, especially younger generation. They are always curious to do something that older people do. They have a hunger that we will do this too. So it's important to show them that this is important. If learning English, Urdu, or any other foreign language is important learning it because Balochi itself is a very diverse and a very vast language. So there are so many aspects in it which I feel I need to explore and I hope that I get that platform in life that I really work on its preservation and its exploration before it dies out as a language because then it will be a failure as a community, meaning at the community level and at the individual level that if no one could do it then why didn't you do it yourself? So the same thing must happen. It should start at an individual level. Some effort should be made. So that we can do more on a collective level. Exactly.Ighna: Would you like to share any favourite word, any quote, any saying that is
common? That is common in Balochia or with its meaning which you like?Lalein: Well, I cannot recall some favourite words but there is one thing that I
believe is something that if I talk to people about this, they will feel like why are you so dramatic, why do you talk like this, who talks like this in a normal everyday life. So it's really common with Balochi language that you talk in an exaggerated way. For example, I will give you an instance. It's this thing that you are considered very bad in our culture. Like if you're sitting and I sit in front with my back facing you, right? So like it's considered rude, really rude. So whenever there is an instance where you don't have an option, that there is no other place to sit, so you are sitting in front of someone, so you often excuse them and you apologize that I am sitting in front of you. So in Baloch, the person in front of whom you are sitting, gul push to dem na dauri. So it basically means that a flower does not have a back or front. Now, this is a normal conversation. Now, I will sit in front of my mother, or I will sit in front of an aunt. So she will say, if someone hears, they will say, what is this? In a normal conversation, they will say, it's okay, son. But no, they would always say gul push to dem na dauri. A flower does not have a back or front. So I'm more than happy that you are sitting in front of me. It doesn't matter if you have a back on my side. For instance, if there is an event or a gathering, and a person excuses that he couldn't come or he didn't come. So you would always mention this phrase, where you would say that your place was empty, and no one could replace that place. And we were expecting you, and no one could fill that void, that you know emptiness, it was specific to you and as soon as you come it would go up and it would have bloomed. So again that is it. So I find these really beautiful. Another thing is how we say like for example, if you break something or if you have done something bad to someone, you will go and apologize say something like it's not more precious then you. They would often say, Shumai sir, may you be well. I mean, there are so many phrases that are normally used in everyday instances. So, what else? Yeah, now for example you got a good result or you were expecting a loved one and he came. You are extremely delighted and happy. So someone who is witnessing this thing, they would see the light in your eyes. They would always say, cham sumai roshan bhen, may your eyes always lighten up like this. And again there is an instance where someone compliments you, that you are looking beautiful. So the person taking the compliment would say, aa chumae nazar ae shani, this is the beauty of your eyes, that you are looking at me like this. It's really common that we talk like this all the time. So the words are beautiful in themselves. And I believe that when you think that they are commonly used, beautiful poetic gestures are used. And you don't realize that until you are sitting here, sometimes I realize that we are like so celebrate the language and the person sitting with us. We value moments, small things. So I believe through language you show what you value, you value people, you value feelings. So yes, that's it.Ighna: That is very beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing. This is probably
my favorite part of everything that you shared. It's really beautiful. Yeah, I'll keep thinking about it. It's very pretty. So anyways, moving on. Okay, so what was your favorite food growing up which you ate, something specific to your region, which specifically your mother makes, which you really love, something special about the recipe, anything that you would like to share?Lalien: Well, when it comes to Balochi cuisine, something I have had a lot of
trouble with when I came here in Lahore was the food. Because we don't opt for spices. So here I always had these stomach complaints that my stomach is burning, this is happening, that is happening, I have eaten spice, there is this thing. So when I talk about my favorite food to the people here, they would be like, what is this? There's nothing in it. How do you like this? So there's this thing which we call thireeth. Thireeth is where you make small pieces of flatbread chapati and you put shorba in it. There's shorba in which there's chicken, chicken broth, and again, there are the natural flavors, there are green chilies, and there's black pepper, and along with that, like you put it in a tray and let it sit for a while. It becomes soft and then you put fried onions on it. So, thireeth is my favorite dish. We have khurut. Khurroud is basically dried, fermented, milk or dried curd. When we make it, it's basically made into rounded balls. They're hard, sour, and very salty. But again, when khuroud is made, I love eating it, it's very hard like a stone, but I like it a lot. When you make khurroud, you soak it in water and when it's soft, you either blend it or you grind it and make its paste. Like you have dahi baingan here, it's very different from dahi baingan, but I can just give you some sort of an image and thireeth can be made with khurroud also with chickpeas and beans and whole wheat again we have in Balochi dishes we have Kurnu, basically when you make Sajji Kebab the Sajji I ate here in Lahore is very different from how we have it there. So there is this thing, when the sajji is being made, the coals on the sides are usually rounded like stones, big big pieces of stones on which you can you put flour on it. So like flour is being cooked on a stone like a rounded ball. So Kurnu is called that bread that is cooked with that heat and then you eat it with Sajji. Again we also have Ash. We have Khadi Kebab. So I think you are familiar with Khadi Kebab? So again like you said it will be very different. It will be very different. I guess I have eaten that too here. But I feel that people should eat. After coming there, this is how it is. You make a well or underground place where you put the whole meat, goat or lamb with rice inside the stomach. I think you cook it all day and when it comes out, it's just amazing.Ighna: Thank you so much for sharing that.