Joseph Watras

Partial Transcript: What got you interested in this question?

Segment Synopsis: Joe talks about how he came to study the topic of desegregation in Dayton, and write a book about it. He says that he came across the issue in the mid-1980's when the local news did a story on the effects of the desegregation process, and that he was inspired to write his book, "Racial Desegregation of Dayton," after one of the newscasters came to speak about the story to one of his classes. He goes on to discuss his personal connection to the Dayton desegregation, which he compares to his Peace Corps. experience, which he says similarly had good intentions and an unexpected outcome.

Keywords: Dayton; Dayton Daily News; DeSoto Bass Projects; Whittier School; desegregation

Partial Transcript: Did you get a sense, in your research, as to when the suburbs started playing a big part in this?

Segment Synopsis: Joe denies that desegregation is the reason that there was a decline in population in Dayton, stating that there is no evidence to support such a claim. He says that the loss of major industries could just as easily have been the main reason for the population drop, although most people claim the primary reason was desegregation.

Keywords: Dayton; industry; school segregation

Subjects: Segregation; Suburbs

Partial Transcript: Was there anything, in the school desegregation story as well as just the contours of the depopulation disinvestment in the city, was there anything anomalous or that stands out to you?

Segment Synopsis: Joseph says that one of the standout features of the Dayton desegregation was its relative success at the time.

Keywords: Dayton; desegregation; success

Subjects: Disinvestment; Segregation

Partial Transcript: You talk about this group, the Committee of '75?

Segment Synopsis: Joseph discusses how the Dayton School Board and the Committee of '75 decided how desegregation would take place. He talks about the push for full desegregation by the committee, while the school board began by desegregating the faculty of schools. He goes on to talk about the heated debates about desegregation, and says that during this time, there were many contested school board election, unlike what there had been in the past.

Keywords: Bussing; Dr. Robert FrenchCommittee of '75; NAACP; School Board; Wayne Carle; desegregation

Subjects: Busing for school integration; Faculty integration; School boards; Segregation

Partial Transcript: Is there a precedent in other places in America for metropolitan desegregation?

Segment Synopsis: Joseph describes how it was easier to desegregate school districts in the South of the US. He cites specific statutes in southern state constitutions as a way to argue that there was purposeful segregation in the South, whereas in the North, the districts themselves were constructed in a way that allowed them to be segregated more implicitly. He explains that because of this, it was more difficult to mandate desegregation in the North.

Keywords: Louisville, KY; US South; Wilmington, DE; metropolitan desegregation

Subjects: Constitutions--United States--States; Segregation in education

Partial Transcript: You write about how the Federal Housing Authority, up until 1950, there is evidence that there was some complicity in the covenants?

Segment Synopsis: Joseph discusses the role of the FHA in upholding housing segregation and discrimination. He says that in his own home deed there exists a covenant that he will not sell his home to an African American, which he says was common practice prior to the late 1960's. He goes on to discuss how the NAACP used this, as well as the argument that so-called attendance zones, which followed racial lines and had an impact on school segregation, to argue that cities had structures to uphold segregation. He also acknowledges that there were Black groups that supported segregated schools in Dayton, particularly on the West Side.

Keywords: Dr. Robert French; FHA; NAACP; Wayne Carle; attendance zones; covenant

Subjects: Covenants; School boards; Segregation

Partial Transcript: Everyone probably knew that federal policy had something to do with it...

Segment Synopsis: Joseph talks about the various departments of the federal government, which often had contradictory policies in relation to desegregation, for example the US Department of Housing and Urban Development.

Keywords: Federal policy; HUD

Subjects: Federal government

Partial Transcript: It turns out that in 1960, the census report comes out, and the HRI says that we have a more segregated city in 1960 than we did have in 1950. What are some causes for that?

Segment Synopsis: Joseph explains that much of the segregation that occurred following the desegregation efforts was caused by suburban development. He says that this was why the Supreme Court upheld segregated districts that were not forced to be so. He goes on to describe efforts which occurred prior to the formal desegregation which worked to desegregate. He says such programs included housing dispersal programs and school district unification, but that after the desegregation controversy occurred, that those programs ceased to exist.

Keywords: Suburban development; White Flight; housing dispersal; school district unification

Subjects: Low-income housing; School districts; Suburbs

Partial Transcript: Are there any state or local policies that either helped or didn't in the case of the desegregation of the Dayton Schools?

Segment Synopsis: Joseph speaks to the historical state complicity in the segregation of Dayton schools. He then delves into the current-day barriers to desegregation, specifically charter schools. He says that charter schools mask their segregation by calling their over all population integrated, while individual schools are overwhelmingly segregated. He says that such schools are also making the survival of private and public schools difficult.

Keywords: Catholic schools; Chester Finn; Fordham Institute

Subjects: Busing for school integration; Charter schools; Public schools; Segregation

Partial Transcript: There is a case that you talk about, the Catholic schools that voluntarily try and integrate their diocesan schools.

Segment Synopsis: Joseph discusses attempts by the Catholic church to integrate diocesan schools. He then talks about the decline of enrollment of Catholic schools, and suggests that this may have been related to the Second Vatican Council and subsequent changes to Catholic school functions.

Keywords: Catholic schools; Resistance; Second Vatican Council; integration

Subjects: Catholic Church; School enrollment; School integration

Partial Transcript: I wonder if you could talk about the Brinkman case that was filed?

Segment Synopsis: Joseph talks about the case Dayton Board of Education v. Brinkman, and how it was nullified by the Milliken v. Bradley case, which occurred in Detroit. He goes on to discuss the bus system that came out of the case, which was successful in its time, while it has declined with the student population in Dayton.

Keywords: Dayton; Dayton Board of Education v. Brinkman; Detroit; Milliken v. Bradley

Subjects: Busing for school integration; Segregation

Partial Transcript: It seems like there is evidence that if you have integrated housing then you'll have integrated schools?

Segment Synopsis: Joseph discusses the importance of preventing redlining and other forms of housing discrimination as a part of desegregation attempts.

Keywords: Fair housing; housing dispersal; redlining

Subjects: Discrimination in mortgage loans; Low-income housing; School integration

Partial Transcript: I'm wondering if you have any feelings as to where you might see the effects of suburbanization on schools, and the effects of urban renewal and things like that?

Segment Synopsis: Joseph points to the MVRPC as an organization that did studies on the effects of suburbanization, which he says found that state policies often pushed companies and residents out to the suburbs.

Keywords: Kettering; MVRPC; Oakwood; Richard Clay Dixon; Suburbanization; school desegregation; state policies

Subjects: Suburbs; Taxation; Urban renewal