Day of Dialogue

[Tom Manley President ]: Sooo, We met yesterday uhm, Mila, Lori and I met, with Kayla and um Meli. Hi. We've all sort of introduced ourselves already but we can do it. [Nzingha Staff]: Nzingha[Unknown]: it's free to sit at the head of the table[Tom Manley President]: Mila is going to be there soon! To ah kind of get a sense of where the conversation that uhm we started with the ah students of color group around the uhm letter or the memorandum with eight recommendations that was sent at the end of February right before I got to campus. Uhm. Where we 00:01:00were in those, those discussions and I think we had some realignment to do in terms of what it meant to be in a dialogue about the issues and ideas that were raised in that memo and how we were responding and what it meant to be in a dialogue about those responses and having those separate processes or even monologues. The important idea yesterday was that a dialogue is something that is interactive and at points it may require that you go off and reflect and discuss a particular position. But always the idea is to keep ideas moving forward. Now the dialogic process is one where ideas are not necessarily 00:02:00competing to win. That people are working to solve a problem in the most efficacious way and that requires however that there is a back and forth that ideas are presented and ideas are critiqued. And uh, some of us in a dialogic process are responsible, we have multiple roles to play and sometimes our roles shift. Sometimes our roles are to offer ideas, sometimes our roles are to critique ideas, sometimes our roles are simply to listen without necessarily taking a position and sometimes our roles are to facilitate and think about 00:03:00what's needed at any time in the process and find a way to offer that. If advocacy is for a particular position. Even if it's not your position in order for that position to be heard then the role that we play at times is to try to make space for that position to be heard. No one is asking questions or offering a critique around a particular proposal and sometimes our role is to offer that critique even if our basic position is in favor of the proposal and it's not like an academic exercise but if we can achieve a framework like that or 00:04:00something close to that then the commitment to doing things together or solving problems can become real as opposed to simply having one person talk about their needs and their issues and another person sort of waiting until that person is done so they can talk about their needs and their issues. Well Mila we're all done.[Mila Administrator]: Works for me.[Tom Manley President]: So I just tried to set up the parameters of the dialogic process that we talked about yesterday. Someone close the door. So if you didn't introduce yourself before and you're 00:05:00not sharing your ben and jerry's lets do that now. Yeah.[Jasmine]: Hi I'll start, Uhm my name is Jasmine, I go by Jazz. I have she/her/her pronouns. I'm a fourth year psychology major. I'm from the US virgin islands saint thomas island specifically. I like salted caramel core Ben and Jerrys. [Odette]: My name is Odette she/her/hers[Noella]: My name is Noella Nzishura I go by her/she/hers 00:06:00originally from Burundi Africa but I've been in the states for about ten years I'm a biomedical science major, yes, fourth year, and I'm lactose intolerant. [Odette]: My name is Odette Chavez-Mayo, I'm a second year, I was born in Mexico, I'm from Texas, I was born in Texas, a media arts major, Oh she/her/hers pronouns. [Mila administrator]: Are we doing this again? [Tom President]: 00:07:00No[Mila Administrator]: If not I'm Mila, from the great city of Philadelphia.[Unnamed Student]: What year are you?[Mila Administrator]: I'm a second year. Do I need to say anything else or are we ready?[Tom Manley President]: No I think that that was sufficient to go you should probably start.[Mila Administrator]: OK. So as I look around the table I see a few faces maybe who were at some of the original discussions that we had meaning the president's staff with the people of color group who brought some concerns to the group as well as some recommendations they had to address some of the experiences they've been having since they've been on campus. And since that 00:08:00time the president's staff developed an action plan to address each of those ten recommendations and there has been some communication about that but in the spirit of dialogue and what this afternoon is about and what some of the other groups are doing we thought it'd be a good idea to continue this dialogue and more specifically to expand it to really what is the first in terms of the larger group of students of color who are here and Lori Tom and I met with Meli who lead the effort last quarter of poc group and Kadae who I don't see is here who is one of the facilitators of the poc ig group this quarter to talk about where we were yesterday and uh that we would be engaged in this conversation today. So I'm assuming everyone introduced themselves, so what you have here is 00:09:00students and members of the president's staff and of course the president as well as Andy who is here because he is on the president's staff now because.[Andy Staff]: Surprise.[Mila Administrator]: Because he's been involved in this conversation excuse me, about housing on campus, and the person who is over residential life, residential services, I thought it was important for him to be here and of course one of our board members who is always engaged with us. I don't really have, we talked about some parameters about what a dialogue is, and some ground rules maybe about, no? Yes. Yes you did. So with that we thought at least yesterday we didn't need to necessarily rehash where we started from in terms of the specific recommendations and all ten of them up until that point. 00:10:00But this again was the beginning of our conversation about the request for a POC hall on campus which we know is uhm, uhmmm, how do I want to describe it. Everyone isn't on the same page about it, in terms of, whether it should be and if it should be how it should happen. Again so in the spirit of dialogue in honesty and transparency Uhm were hoping that presidents staff can hear from the students as I had the opportunity to do this past Tuesday when they had their uhm act of disappearance in CSKC and talk to Philman who was enlightened by their conversation and thought that the rest of the team needed to hear some of those sentiments but likewise I'm hoping that some of the students are open to hearing from some of the staff in terms of some of the concerns thoughts and 00:11:00ideas they have in a fair and open way. Does that make sense?[Tom Manley President]: Well can I just add something that we talked about yesterday?[Mila Administrator]: Sure.[Tom Manley President]: So that the context for this, this conversation, this dialogue is not simply the ah, the age group recommendations that were made late in February but actually is now broader in sense that at least the recommendation around establishing a residence hall or a hall for students of color has broader implications for the college. One of the things I've learned from coming to Antioch is that we don't necessarily have a 00:12:00sense of how we want to conduct ourselves as a community and especially what the uhm. [Unknown]: Sorry there are some real chairs out here now.[Tom Manley President]: And what the uhm what the parameters are for our, not just conducting those conversations but working and living together so that, the ah, my uh, our knowledge in the world in order to have that education and vision of this idea of finding new and better ways of living is really something that is at stake. In every single issue and problem we address with race. The context for this conversation is broader and we're starting here. But we're going to 00:13:00want to include other members of the community and make sure there is a way of incorporating voices so when we do come to a point where we do make a decision it may not be that everybody supports that decision and there isn't absolute consensus. But there has been an opportunity for people to have their perspectives represented in that conversation. There has been an opportunity for some people who may choose not to add their voices to the process. I just wanted to make it clear where we ended in that conversation. Back to you.[Mila 00:14:00Administrator]: So who wants to start? I don't know if you want to start with the students and speak on better requests or some may not have heard the requests need to be heard and the reasons in depth. [Unnamed Student]: I'm curious about where the staff is. Me personally I've heard the students speak but I haven't heard you guys in particular speak so I want to know where you guys are. [Mila Administrator]: I feel like i've only heard a couple of students speak and the students with the initial immediate recommendations and concerns which was a very common story mostly in my mind at that point in time about safety that lead to recommendations but since then I've only heard from a couple of students at all so what has emerged after that in terms of the students I 00:15:00don't feel like i've heard.[Odette]: I feel like it might be personally because I feel like a lot of us on the student side don't know how to approach this. It would be easier for us to know your initial thoughts about the housing before we continue. Because I don't know we had, a lot of us had a chance to talk about it Tuesday and come to an understanding or just like more of a knowledge and basis of what we were thinking? I'm not going to say an agreement just sort of we understood more what everyone was thinking. I feel like at least for me I don't know how to present this as "we want a poc housing" but what are the hold ups? What is it that you guys are concerned about, why is it not already a thing that just went through like that? Like I feel like these are more questions that we would rather have answered before we start getting into the reasons that we see are necessary verses we start and then you'll say something, and then we'll start again and then you'll say something and it's this back and forth that it 00:16:00might not be as productive. [Mila Administrator]: it's a dialogue though.[Unnamed Student]: I know but like the dialogue, like who is going to start? It's probably going to be me or Kevin being like "we want poc housing because like" and from there it's going to be yes and yes. I don't know, I just think it makes more sense for staff to start out with that.[Phone]: Sorry I missed out.[Tom Manley President]: Siri has started.[Odette]: Maybe it is probably the best idea to answer why, because I feel like the staff doesn't know our reasons personally or like everyone's reasons personally. So it's probably best to start off with why the hall is wanted and then everyone can agree and then tell why they want it too as well and then ok someone can say why they disagree or not. Just as like a good basis of getting our voices out there. 00:17:00[Unnamed Student]: I second Melis' position.[Mila Administrator]: Ok I'm going to trump this because we will spend the next hour. [Unnamed Student]: Can I finish what I'm saying? I second Meli and also I second Nzingha but the difference is I feel like going students going and saying like they agree. They agree or they want There reasons for saying why they want the poc housing and then staff being like and saying this is why they disagree I don't know I feel like it shuts it down there. Like there is like a "this is what I want" and a "no this is what you're gonna get."[Mila Administrator]: Let me clarify this isn't a decision making meeting. [Unnamed Student]: No I got that yeah. It's really just to talk about the issue that people say something.[Unnamed Administrator B]: Well I was going to say that I think there are some assumptions being made about what each side is on perhaps and there is an 00:18:00assumption that answer will come specifically out of this meeting. I know for me personally as a staff member for what it's worth I can give a whole host of reasons, my history, my context, my background, development, student concerns, student issues, maybe ya know things couched in administrations, the board of trustees the alumni, all kinds of things that might be why I would or wouldn't support a particular issue but that isn't informed by the context of the issue at question and sometimes the things involved right now because I don't know the points of view of all of the students involved right now today at Antioch 00:19:00college in 2016. So honestly to me that is the more relevant piece of information before it can inform my perspective of which other piece of information or ideas or thoughts or philosophy do I have to add to the conversation so. [Meli]: Ok I"ll start. So last quarter when we met with a bunch of poc for the normal group we started talking about poc housing. Mainly because at this community we can't, as a group were smaller, were a predominately white school. So when you go to your classroom, your residence hall, anywhere, you 00:20:00can't avoid running into people who don't share the same experience that you have here. A lot of women of color in particular have been assaulted and have had a chance to I think kind of gained distrust of a lot of the people on campus. I trusted Antioch and the safety of the community of it for a long time and then I received my note and instantly trusted it a lot less. In my hall there is only one other person of color and so when I got my note there was only like. I saw it as a race issue because It wasn't just like I was the first person of this incident to occur it had already happened before and so I felt very very unsafe in my hall. Even as an RA which is like the worst part I should have been able to go into that hallway and be like "hello residents of mine, this is like a fun time that we're having." and I should be able to like give you support as an RA and I can't give you any support. I just would rather not be here because there is no one for me to turn to especially not another woman 00:21:00of color and that is why I felt a lot of safety and unity in the women of color case unit back in fall quarter and that was a community that I wanted to build and so upon talking to a couple first years back last quarter. And so for it kind of stemmed more of a need for poc housing because they had, you're only a first year here but I'm going to make this observation. The first years when they came in the students of color ended up clicking in mostly students of color like I think for the upperclassmen we ended up being more split up we had a lot more closer friends groups that were a lot more diverse in terms of race and we had a lot of like white and non-white friends but a lot of like the core friend groups of the first years were people of color and if you have communities and support systems that are mostly grown out of students of color and there is no where to support that other then an IG group that meets during a Tuesday which 00:22:00is a really great homework time and not a great meeting time then it really brings the question into the community having a place to bond that is not just for safety and having someone to rely on when you have a note and are experiencing racism which is what everyone is experiencing every day here. But also the chance just to like have fun and be like this is the people that I want to hang out with and this is the people I want to be around with and cultivate myself and empower myself to be around and I think it's easier to share your culture and your time and your effort and I don't know educating white students on why you can't actually go around touching someone's hair which happened today, this morning, someone touched my hair. I literally unbraided it like twelve hours ago. So like just being able to go into my hallway and not have to be like oh wow Meli you changed your hair can I touch it? That happened at 7:30 this morning and wasn't about it. But I don't know I'm just going to open it up 00:23:00that way. Is that acceptable for people? Yes?[Unnamed Student]: it's worth mentioning that this poc hall it's not our intention to have all poc required to be in this hall. It is very a matter of choice so if you feel like you don't need this hall then you don't have to be on this hall. [Meli]: Yeah and I guess logistically which is probably a necessary thing to state. This hall is not a permanent being. Like it's not a thing that ends up being the second floor of the south side of birch every single quarter from summer onwards, it's something that can be on the third floor of the west side of north or like one case unit or like two or whatever is the necessity and need for that quarter and the students of color that requested that hall. So it's always a matter of choice 00:24:00and it's not something that is going to throw in theory throw residential room assignment into a whole chaotic mess and we really just want to emphasize that like Jasmine said it is super about choice so when you start having the argument and it's like what if we don't buy in and you're the only person of color who ends up being in this mostly white hall because you didn't want to join the student of color hall, that already happens now, like it's not really something that is particularly unusual or something that will cause undue stress because if that is an argument not to have it it already happens. But that is logistically what it is. [Odette]: I'd like to add to our discussion, although I don't live at Antioch, so I am a little bit more removed because I don't have to 00:25:00make these choices I just want to add to that a larger discussion that we had one of the main points that we touched on was that this, like the concerns about having a poc hall is that to a certain degree maybe the poc are separating themselves away from the rest of the community and that's not what we want we want them to make community etc, ect. That was like something that was brought up and we were talking about this and kind of like what we touched on is that it's really hard. As poc it's hard to go on day to day in this space that is supposed to be a community and sometimes you don't feel like a community member and to be able to be with these people that understand what you're going through and not have to necessarily explain yourself or explain what has happened throughout your day etc, etc. having this small community almost will well we 00:26:00were talking about how that can reinforce the poc involvement in the larger community because we feel like we have a sense of community here and we don't feel alienated and we have this space that is for us. Well I'm not saying I would be a part of it. But like for poc that would be on this hall this almost confidence in your community would theoretically the hope is that it would spread out and we would have this confidence and this culture and these ideas and our experiences and it's like a home base that you can go to when you're really stressed out or you really having a rough time or you really need someone to talk to and you know that you could go here. And we were talking about how we lack these community spaces we don't have a student space we don't have a community space something happened to me when I was in yellow springs and I was 00:27:00not feeling like talking to you know I wanted to talk to a lot of people of color that would understand this and there was no physical space that I could enter I would have to invite people. The idea is that this space exists and you can enter it and that it will be a space for you and you don't have to organize it it already exists there. it's existence is important, the physical matter of it being there is very important.[Noella]: Going off of that the question brought up was self segregation right. And I just brought the term of self preservation. This is what Odette is talking about when you're looking at this situation you are saying the poc or the students of color are removing 00:28:00themselves from the community No because we have a women's hall right and believe me I like the women's hall and I need to be in there because I want to also and in away I'm more successful because of that. When I go back to my hall I feel that safety being in that hall so when we say the students of color are segregating themselves it's a top view of saying you're doing this to the community but when students of color are expressing what they need by saying "I need to have this hall to be more successful as a scholar here at Antioch" So I need this community to build myself up in that specific area of my identity that I want to build up. As Odette was saying also not everybody that is a student of 00:29:00color wants to be in that hall. So it's those who want to build that community want to be a part of that hall. Those are some variables to consider when I'm talking about this hall. [Ishan]: I think the best quote that was brought up during our discussion of last week was not wanting to be a melting pot. And being the stew and the individual vegetables that go into the stew. We can't be melting all together we gotta be us and then we can be thrown all together and make some bomb ass stew. [Mila Administrator]: This really isn't a question per se but I brought this up as a question before. Just thinking about my own 00:30:00experience as a college student and a person of color in college and then as a professional in higher education and the trends of res life. I don't think this issue has ever been or ever lacked controversy or disagreement in terms of when it happens on college campuses. It does strike me as odd that when you talk about gender and women only halls and whole buildings at least when I was in college it wasn't the same hot button issue as race and I've been trying to think about that and why that is. I Think the answer was so complicated. You know if you look at our history as a people in this country all of the different 00:31:00experiences and how frankly race is still one of the big elephants in the room we have a hard time grappling with so maybe this isn't an answer necessarily more that it is a statement that it is a hot button issue and always has been. And uhm [Inaudible] I don't know if Andy has something else to add on about residential life and what you've seen or know of other campuses and how they might deal with these other issues.[Andy Staff]: So what I can say is these requests are coming from somewhere there are students' needs on campuses. We at resident life recognize that and we are working to identify what is needed to create support for that. I sent a letter to poc group a while ago and in the letter I said in some ways I don't know that you're asking for that because it's not just enough to have the housing there needs to be more too it when we look 00:32:00at places that do housing like this well there is always other pieces too it so for instance there is usually a curricular component to it so the thought process we've been looking at resident life is what kind of a structure can we provide for that and that is a large part of where the affinity housing idea we came up with came from. Which is not the framework but it could be a possible framework uhm for a conversation at some point and a large part of that is that extra support to build into a community I think that in some ways the needs here go beyond providing space but a better network of support and there are ways in 00:33:00which residence life can provide better support from that. I feel that these requests come from needs and we recognize those needs and residence life is really committed to helping those needs. [Unnamed Student]: Are you saying in other ways besides having just the piece of our person of color hall?[Andy Staff]: I think there are ways we could go about this and I think part of this comes down to a desire to have greater agency over housing and that's absolutely something we could be supportive of and in some ways so uhm. Yeah I think that's part of it. I think a long with that one of the greatest pieces of feedback I'm hearing from hearing people talking about affinity housing besides not really 00:34:00liking the name is also this idea of it seems like a generic method to specific needs that need addressed and I think there is a lot of legitimacy to that it's a possible starting point or a possible starting point. Like I said, I think there are some things we need to think about in terms of how we would go about providing housing like this there are certainly schools that do this uhm, Berkeley has theme housing very similar to this and there are other institutions that are able to provide housing of this nature. [Mila Administrator]: Uhm I 00:35:00fear too different ideas that might exist. Are there students here who uhm don't necessarily agree with the request or have concerns about it? Likewise are there staff that are willing to talk about where you are philosophically and the philosophy of how we do housing here at Antioch. I know for me the philosophical part. I'm a little conflicted with that because I don't know that we have really had that dialogue on that campus about how we do residential living and what our ideals and goals for community housing and community general 00:36:00and housing specifically. But I know there could be others who have a more thoughtful and well thought out idea of what your philosophy is about race. Now I want everyone to be able to make a statement, not just a few of us.[Unnamed Student]: So my first year here we had a dinner with someone in the community and I was paired with Amelia Christian and I said oh they paired the Hispanic kids together and someone heard that and it got to administration and they sent me an email and they said "will I'm sorry we're just trying to provide support" and the way I interpreted it in the beginning was oh there trying to cater to 00:37:00me. Because I come from a place where there is a better ratio of white people to the people of color. I feel like I personally haven't experienced any direct aggression in this environment and I can understand how other individuals do and I support the idea of having a space to support and share cultural backgrounds 00:38:00that are not understood by others however I feel for the concerns of safety and my personal community it is avoiding it all. I feel like it's trying to build this barrier to someone that has a harmful or hurtful behavior that can hurt someone outside of this barrier and I feel that that behavior shouldn't continue if they later on have some influence over your decision making. I feel that disembodying the problem of "well no I can't do anymore aggressions because I 00:39:00don't have access so I'm just going to go somewhere else" and no it's not our responsibility to educate these people as individuals but that is where I'm conflicted on is just on having this space of just poc and because I also believe I don't know how to address this problem of associating poc with white people because I feel like doing this will make it even harder to get some interactions and I understand that if we are better supported emotionally then perhaps something can happen. Like Ishan stated but I just I don't know if, that's a huge risk to just cluster people who feel this way and then try to get 00:40:00some dialogue I don't know that's where I'm conflicted. [Ishan]: Going off of what you've said to I think this also goes into the other recommendations of like having a better support system beside the events that may happen with safety and this is outside of the hall at this point and yeah having a better support system so if something does happen hopefully not but if things were to happen there is like a system in place that can better take care of it so that less of those kinds of events in safety kind of things happen. Uhm I think of the poc hall as only being one of the steps like we can't focus on the poc hall 00:41:00as a solution to everything going on in the climate of the campus. The poc hall is many things. There are many other things that need to be worked on in order for them to be better and have a better placement in the community so that is kind of where I am coming from with the idea with that. So yeah a poc hall is only one of the pieces of the puzzle. [Unnamed Student]: I'm kind of inline with Octavia when it comes to being kind of on a wall between both ideas. On one 00:42:00aspect I'm so for it because I'm really behind the idea of having a community and coming to a space where people are like me and I don't have to like to explain myself and I've tried it before and some people just don't get it. I can just walk up to it and they completely understand it and it's awesome and I don't have to feel bad about myself for other people like not understanding me but on the other end I feel like in having a POC hall it could be hindering in learning how to deal with other situations like that and dealing with other people in the world if they're dealing with their own racial issues in a centralized location then we aren't like learning how to live in that space because in the real world we can't just find an apartment building that is all poc and if we do great but I don't feel like that is completely realistic. And 00:43:00in regards to safety I feel like it's a little scary because then what if said person and were all in the same place it could be a localized thing where they come after all of us and they know we're all there in that one space that is a concern of mine. I feel like there could be other ways to implement safety on campus and I feel like it also starts with the actual root of the problem and these issues and these attacks were important and we can't like ignore them and make up other things on top of it to where we should just deal with it head on 00:44:00and then the other issues that were presented from poc first like the support group and then the backing we should have as a group. I feel like if we just have POC hall it will somewhat become like a solution instead of addressing the real issues we have here as well. People will be like oh we have like a hall people will just brush off the real issues we have here as well and they will just brush it off as "Oh well they have a hall" and it's like no. Like people saying unintentionally racist things or giving us notes again. I just worry about being, having a space like that and just having more things happen instead of making the whole community understand this is not acceptable and it won't be tolerated instead of just having this hall. [Unnamed administrator]: So I think 00:45:00that's an important point because uhm I'm going to put on a sociologist hat because for all identity groups I think we're making assumptions because for all identity groups teenagers, LGBTQ, racial and ethnic groups, there is ingroup violence and outgroup violence there is ingroup aggressions and microaggressions and stereotypes and things that happen and also outgroup statistically for some of the higher levels we actually know that the majority of it is ingroup, well largely because of geographic location groups being homogeneous and collect in the areas in which they choose to live because they chose to form an ingroup so 00:46:00ah I think that speaks to well one the sets of assumptions we made all along bout safety. But secondly to this need more importantly to this need that's much broader Ideas of how to generate a campus culture and a set of support systems and a set of intervention and response systems that regardless of how set your identity or orientation or your status in anyway shape or form as a student that address the issue at hand of safety and security so that's one of the reasons why a POC hall wont address all of the issues. So that's what I have to say on 00:47:00that.[Unnamed student]: You sure? Ok. Uhm I think, Nzingha I think there is something you mentioned about like isolating and not being relevant like we're not learning to interact? In my mind we would still be in north and be in birch and be living in this general space with other students who aren't people of color but I think having that hall and that space would give me the actual opportunity to thrive here as opposed to sometimes how I feel of just getting by sometimes. At least speaking from personal experience when the first years moved in there was another Indian student here and I kind of lit up. It reminded me of 00:48:00home and being here and that kind of support. I don't know what I'm saying. I don't know what I'm kind of saying but I think like I haven't personally experienced any kind of aggressive like behavior towards me in the outright or things that other people experience but in the sense of community and I really feel like I might need to be the best student here and why I'm here in the first place and this would be really helpful.[Noella]: So once that would have been brought up that really got me thinking is what is the job of us as a student. 00:49:00Like that is the basic question. I was hearing those comments and it's like what is the job of students here is it to learn or to teach others? I'm actually really for teaching others because we're all teaching others in one form or another but when you're a student and you're going through any type of assault emotional physical how are you able to learn? This hall to those who need it they're saying I don't want to go through this I want to focus on my learning. So the basic question for me what I'm hearing is: It's not for the person who is doing the wrong doing That person will have to do those events as an irelelic, 00:50:00we try to target those events as a community but this poc community is saying I need this hall to stay here so I don't have to try to answer for what I do the emotions I'm feeling about an issue asking me what's my take about a black persons shooting or something I don't have to answer that question what is the needs of this student. They say they need that hall. This other person who is writing those mean notes we will have to deal with that in another way. We're not giving those poc students a home by saying that we need to create an integrated community doesn't help those poc students who are saying right now "this is what I need" So I don't know I'm graduating but I'm still thinking about those students who don't feel they have the energy to actually push for 00:51:00this. So I am for educating each other. I am for helping those people who feel like violence is the way to solve problems. Because you know violence, people use violence because they experience it in one form or another so I am for healing that in a way too. But saying we're trying to help those who are doing the violence by saying we're not going to help those who are feeling victimized is not even answering the question for those who actually need that direct answer sometimes.[Unnamed administrator]: Are you responding to my direct statement? [Noella]: I'm just saying in general[Unnamed administrator]: My statement was not for or against a poc hall but are for much broader supports in addition to interventions.[Noella]: I'm not answering, We had to deal with 00:52:00interrelationships with poc groups because we've had to deal with that here at Antioch and I've told the poc group ya know in order to feel strengthened we have to be together and we have to deal with issues in our community too. I agree with what you are saying to but like when I was hearing comments about how do we deal with the issue of integrating the community including our community as a whole both white and not white I hear that I do but right now it's like people getting notes. How can the study? How can they be scholars? For the community to be successful that is what they are saying they need. I'm not saying they are right or they are wrong but that is what they are saying they need and yeah.[Josh ]: This whole time sitting here this made me think of my 00:53:00very first quarter at Antioch in the women's hall. Having an all women's hall didn't separate me from that community that they had on that fourth floor it actually taught me someone who identifies as male about the space I'm taking up. And like I don't know it was knowing that that was there safe space and when I needed to enter that hall it actually taught me about space and about what my presence in the hall means. I mean it's not like excluding everybody but it's also used as a safe space and also a learning tool to like ya know non-white students and so they can learn how they take up space. White students can learn how they take up space and that pocs need their safe space and like some place 00:54:00of community and I don't think that would destroy any community or break any bond. They're not like locking themselves in a corner or yeah I don't know. [Jasmine]: Yeah I'm very much on the same level as Noella in terms of when you, there is like a need for something? And I'm also a senior so this won't really affect me. But I really do care about this space being available to people who need it and I'm in case right now which is more like apartment living then just like hallways and just rooms. I think about reasons why I would need it and experiences living in a hall when I lived in a residence hallway. I didn't 00:55:00always interact with the people who lived there it's not like I just keep to the people that lived in my residence hall. That sounds like the assumptions that are being made. It could be wrong that's fine but it sounds like people are assuming we're just going to keep to ourselves in this group. And uhm what I'm hearing a lot instead from other people is that the people you need are readily available so lets say I'm a second year that really wants to talk to Noella but Noella lives on some hall in birch that I don't know where. So I have to message Noella and I have to go to birch and find her hallway. Instead I can just go a few doors down and her name is on her doorway and I can just go to her doorway. it's that the people you need are readily available when you need them without having to do so much work to get there and I guess last Tuesday when I talked 00:56:00about my perspective the US virgin islands is largely black so I come from a largely POC community. So I guess when I'm around a lot of POC people it's not a matter of us being separate from white people it's a matter of us being separate from home. Because when you come from a large poc community and you get dropped into a community that is a majority of white people like there is a learning experience there. Like I didn't know how to interact with a lot of white people when I got here. I didn't know a lot I knew closely maybe like two but coming here it's a learning experience you get to see all different types of assets of life outside of this singular community that you were raised in but at the same time I found it hard to have the identity that I had it's like kind of learning 00:57:00to adapt to your surroundings and not throwing away but putting aside what makes you you and conforming to what the society make around you. But had I had this hall I don't feel like I would have felt a need to put away that part of me but at the same time I could also learn to be in this society like this.[Unnamed administrator]: What have you heard that says to you that when you said you i don't know who you were referencing are thinking that you are trying to separate ourselves. What have you heard that suggests that the you is thinking that?[Jasmine]: Did I say you?[Unnamed student]: I have notes. You said that you're on the same page as Noella you're considering why people need this space 00:58:00and you fear that the reason why people are hesitant to the poc space is that people feel that "we" are trying to separate or we were just continuing to separate ourselves.[Unnamed administrator]: Well I didn't feel like it was stated that broadly but thanks for clarifying. [Jasmine]: Is that clear enough?[Nzingha]: I actually agree with josh because I feel like it could definitely be a space like that to where uhm people come in and they feel like ok figure out your space and your boundaries and things like that and understanding how to interact and get a better understanding of how to interact with poc instead of generalizations. I'm also a senior so I wont be here for long. I do feel like especially what Noella was saying if they need this place for support I definitely understand that. Even being in my class there is like 00:59:00what me you and Adalese?[Unnamed Student]: Jasmine[Unnamed Student]: And Odette[Nzingha]: I don't know. That's how little I know, see! It's like starting to keep track of us but I know so little. I would see them and I would be like oh my god thank you so much it's so good to see your face and it's interesting to just see people like or like poc. You just have a need to be filled and see people like you and it makes you feel so warm. I'm getting happy just thinking about it. You get really happy seeing poc people and living in a space like that it can be a space for like mood and personal well being and just like talk and 01:00:00dance and laugh. And just be as loud as you want not that you can't do that anywhere because you can do it anywhere but it's a great feeling to have. My only concern honestly because i'm so for a poc hall is just the safety of being localized and in one space and then having these attacks at like Meli and and having them endure and come into that space. One of my only concerns other than I'm afraid of backtracking into like jim crow I don't think that's going to happen here but i like worry about the safety and how that is going to happen. [Mari]: Speaking of that, how are we holding this anonymous person accountable. We're always talking about support and we find support within ourselves but we also need to find support in our allies no quotes. [Nzingha]: We need to find 01:01:00out who this was or to have any sort of policies for if something happens like this again.[Mari]: Maybe some readings around like what kind of person would do this so we can better understand how to protect ourselves.[Unnamed Student]: Exactly yeah.[Mari]: Not to pinpoint a person but maybe we should pinpoint them?[Nzingha]: It just worries me that we should have to move to a central location and be around each other which is fine because I love it but why should we have to like sep-not separate but like, why should we have to like remo-I don't want to say remove ourselves.[Unnamed Student]: Quarantine?[Nzingha]: Whoa, none of us are sick.[Unnamed Student]: Isolate?[Nzingha]: Isolate is so strong. Why should we have to remove ourselves in a purpose to combat people who we feel like are attacking us ya know? It's mostly just like safety and taking 01:02:00stuff back that you worry about. Other than that I think they hall they need for success, like I wish I had it for success because I feel like having someone who understands me and being like Nzingha. "You got this, do not blah blah blah, a b and c, like girl push whatever" that would have been extremely beneficial to me to have people support me like that and tell me what I need to hear and even tell me what I don't want to hear but need to listen to you know things like that. Sometimes I feel like I only get that from people I fear like.[Noella]: Yeah Nzingha and I had to that with science and labs and stuff like we had to push ourselves and we had to be honest with ourselves like we are poc we are not stereotypically lazy like we have to fight that mindset which is in a sense put 01:03:00that on ourselves but in a sense push ourselves and be there for each other. But hearing everybody talk has brought up some questions to me about like is there a concern about having this hall an aspect of the stereotypes that our poc people get. Is there a concern for that? Everybody is like "They're always noisy" you know like?[Unnamed Administrator]: I have personal ideas about the idea of being segregated and where that can lead. So I'm pro-affinity housing in a whole bunch of ways just generally. Uhm and I think of affinity housing as something that 01:04:00changes developmentally what you need today, this week, next week, a year from now is not the same thing as what you need four years from now but from that point with stereotypes I don't have concerns about it. My honest concern is that you challenge stereotypes, you have defended in many ways the construction of the argument a number of assumptions that I think sometimes although i've not felt anything directed at me but sometimes get directed at us as a group the 01:05:00decision making body. You started Meli with the statement "we don't understand why it's so complex and so hard." it should be an easy decision. And so you've defended a number of cases and assumptions based on what some people think. Whether it's in this room or in general it was an obstacle of things and to me, well Nzingha herself made a reference to going back to jim crow, segregation and things. These are all out there. Mila talked about how this is a long historical issue. As a hot button issue, I do think it's interesting in contrast to other types of affinity housing. For me the complexity is around the dialogue it's around the fact that even if everyone in this room were in absolute agreement and I don't know that it is yet we know that based on the people you mustered 01:06:00your cases for that there are a lot of people out there throughout the history of Antioch even as progressive the history of Antioch has always been and with in our community and with in the larger community to who hold a lot of those stereotypes and hold a lot of those assumptions who act form a lot of those perspectives and without a broader conversation how do we avoid a perception that Antioch is trying to go back to jim crow. At the board meeting and I don't 01:07:00know how many of you were able to stay at the board meeting after the poc recommendation but the members of the board of trustees and the alumni board talked about different iterations of Antioch with and without poc housing and issues and questions related to that and that's close to there experience so they're going to think about these things. So I come from a community organizing standpoint. I think about less about what is the outcome and think less about a particular outcome but more into a facilitated group outcome? But how do we facilitate a conversation broadly that really helps everyone understand and buy into the reasons that you would want this and not feel like people are separating themselves or that Antioch college is creating the next jim crow? There is always going to be safety and security in student housing at Antioch 01:08:00college. [Unnamed student]: It's interesting Octavia you brought it up that we were all put together for our first dinner. I remember the first co-op I went to they saw me and they were like "oh we thought you were Mexican" and I'm not but my last name is Gonzalez. So I'm not I'm actually [inaudible] but you know I thought maybe philosophically or whatever in my head I first thought "I feel like we need a poc hall" but like yeah so I can like philosophically have my own thoughts but that doesn't need to get into the way of what people need. I can have my own thoughts but I don't think it should be up to you to know like the board of trustees or the alumni board or whatever board to say what others 01:09:00should need. But I don't feel like I also had a long conversation with Odette Tuesday night and I shared my own feelings with her or whatever but those are my own feelings and that's cool but that doesn't need to come in the way of other people's happiness or feelings on this campus so I think, I also think, as a college we shouldn't decide and it's also difficult in terms of finances and also sorry Malta but you're right board of trustees literally owns this college. it's difficult because you have to balance and make everyone happy but not everyone is going to be happy and also were in a really intense time where accreditation is coming up so there is like all of these fears of like what are we going to look like and we just had something happen in higher ed like I think that's Antioch review but that's a whole other conversation. But I think uhm as 01:10:00an institution I definitely don't want to be a college that bases decisions on how we will look to others. I think that if we don't like, I think we're also assuming what will happen and I think that is dangerous and I have definitely assumed what will happen and I've, someone told me once I really like to talk about things as if they're like facts and I definitely don't know everything and so uhm I feel like we also shouldn't assume what this outcome will be. Because we don't know because it could be like really amazing and then we missed an opportunity because of how I felt. Which doesn't make any sense because I look hella white so whatever community I'm in I'm perceived as white so my experience 01:11:00is completely different and I mean like all of my sisters. My oldest sister is Dominican, my second oldest sister is Puerto Rican and then Nikki and I are Nicaraguense. My whole family is like extremely diverse. So I don't know I just feel like I can have my own opinion and that's cool, I can chill with my opinion but that doesn't need to get into the way of other people.[Mila Administrator]: I want to recommend a book I see three other hands that maybe we could read as a community and discuss it some other time. it's called "why are all of the black kids sitting together in the cafeteria and other conversations about race" It's by Beverly Tatem who used to be the president of Spelman I think? And one of the things that I was looking at, I have the book I read the book, but in her 01:12:00description she talks about going into highschool and college and noticing how students of the same race tend to stick together and she doesn't think that is so bad and she talks about uhm, she's a psychologist, and she talks about black students and I want to expand that to other people of color, that they must secure a racial identity free of negative stereotypes and then she talks about a challenge to whites being to give up their privilege that their skin color affords and so were actively to combat injustice but specifically what she talks about that is not just in our campuses but it's in our faculty lounges and corporate cafeterias and she asks Is this self segregation a problem we should try to fix or a coping strategy we should try to support. That's a really good question and those sentiments come up here and then she goes on to say how do we give up our reluctance to talk about racial issues that prevent us from even 01:13:00discussing it. So it goes on and on and on. I think it would be really important because what I hear in the room is I hear some people of color talking about it and maybe we didn't talk about how we have a desire to be around other people of color and you talked about your warm and fuzzy feelings and all of that and I was thinking because I identify with that in a major way and I'll just put myself out there as an example for some in the room to who might be able to identify with. The presidential search committee for example, I had a phenomenal time with that group and got to ah bond with colleagues and trustees alike and there were moments in that time where I had to find Louise, Louise Rosa who was another person of color. Not necessarily about that process but just in general and then I had the same experience on campus and so, but how do I or how can I 01:14:00make Joanne or have you understand that as a white person? How can I engage with you or how can you engage with me or those conversations because I feel that we avoid those conversations that make those nuances and it maybe something that you do not understand so how do we embrace that. Or how do we create that space or that dialogue or these issues. We all have similarities we're all at Antioch we all want Antioch to succeed but we do have differences and I don't look at differences as bad and so that's kind of like a larger conversation in housing but I think we're at a place and a campus where we can have those serious conversations that frankly I've been at six other institutions and they don't have them at the same depth that we have the opportunity to do here. I saw your hand and your hand and I think Kadae.[Unnamed administrator]: I just want to say 01:15:00I think there is a big difference between allowing others to make decisions and coalition building and collaboration. So I think I hear you saying why should we let the board or others make decisions for students in need and really what I'm talking about is taking a message out. Much as this message and dialogue has occurred in helping build coalition building so something stronger can move forward holistically then outside there can veto the decision because they don't get it but also sometimes that's the reality in life Somebody who doesn't get it can veto our decisions so thinking about it that way.[Nzingha]: I feel that I feel that also dialogue isn't something that happens once. Dialogue is a process 01:16:00that's fucking hard. Sorry excuse my language. it's actually extremely difficult but it's a risk that you take. I feel like a decision like could I'm not saying a decision needs to be made this meeting and I'm not saying that I'm the one that makes that decisions. Hi. and uh I think that, I think that there is definitely steps that can be taken and then dialogue can continue. I think we can all recognize that like this is not just an isolated choice or recommendation Right? Like it also has other parts that you can't expect to like based on your assignment, have a poc hall or like Nzingha and we do it and like no more racism, like no. But that is of course possibly a step that people need and that is important so then the dialogue can absolutely continue and it should continue. I think if we expect it to end then that is more harmful so. [Andy 01:17:00staff]: So I just want to shift gears a little bit. Nzingha you mentioned something about safety and the perception that perhaps the poc hall would decrease safety and I think for the people that have gone we would actually see the opposite. Uhm, Go ahead. It just kind of was one of the pieces. I think what we would see was actually the opposite. I think one of the things that we know or that we've seen in these actions were done by the people that want to remain anonymous. I think in the same way that a man walks onto a woman's floor space becomes more conscious of the space and all of that it becomes an environment that decreases the ability of a person to remain anonymous. I will say right now that someone on campus knows who has been involved in the actions that have 01:18:00happened. Someone knows it and someone knows it. And that is probably one of the most difficult pieces of this is that someone knows it and is not helping us to hold that person accountable or those people accountable. When we create a floor section like a poc hall. What we're doing is we're providing people a space that becomes more defensible which is the idea of having more ownership over that space. When people have more ownership over the space they're more likely to confront something that happens over that space. What I would like to see is safety from anonymous actions increase uhm through an increase in a sense of ownership of the space and a decreased perception in something that could be anonymous happen in the space. It's the same way I think we see similar things in case. In case the case unit's feel differently partially because of the way 01:19:00they're set up because they have that common area with its own entrance and so the people living in case have a much greater sense of ownership then what happens in case then people living on a residence hall or what a residence floor does because of that idea of a defensible space. So I think we'd probably see an increase in safety. [Unnamed Student]: Whenever Meli you got your note Meli, Ellie and I went to your door to anonymously put a good happy note on your door. And Leandre saw us and was like "what are you doing" like what and like "oh my god it's not us." that was one of the instances where Leandre saw we were even getting close enough for us to get to your door and Leandre was already ready to defend Meli and it was a really great moment because it felt like you know like he was looking out for Meli and it was great.[Unnamed person]: it's probably 01:20:00past now but I was going to ask if two of you are fine with it if not it's fine but I'd like to know what your thoughts are.[Michele]: I've got so many thoughts. I've had so many thoughts. So well, let's start from the beginning so I was in a coffee shop with my friend in Dayton when I got the email. And I was like "oh ok" and then also some of the things that happened were also on my floor and dulce was right across from me. Dulce gabby and anna would sometimes hang out cause like well I'm from san Francisco and she's from la so we definitely had a little rivalry but we both connected since we were both Latina women. But uhm I definitely had concerns my concerns were similar to Nzingha actually if you're local will that make it an easier target since everyone knows 01:21:00where you are. That was actually a concern that I had like the concern for all white halls which kind of terrified me a bit. Uhm but then of course Meli was sharing well that's already happening. Most of the halls I've already been in have been very diverse or how diverse you could get. But like I tend to have even with like the first years it was mostly like people of color or young women of color mostly. So those were my initial thoughts of like segregations. And like I did have that thought honestly and I thought what if a poc person wanted to room with a white person now are they going to be alone in an all white hall. Like that also scares me will that person feel like they're not a part of poc because they've not chosen to be in that hall. Uhm and then I've had some questions about my own identity because my experiences is very different and I need to recognize that too. Uhm and then I had many dialogues with people actually through today I was taking notes. Like not because I was like debating. I was just taking notes and it's a way for me to process and now I've kind of, and like I had a conversation with someone and I was also like just because you were poc doesn't necessarily mean you get along with all people who are poc. You know and it doesn't necessarily mean that you can relate because there are so many various experiences even with in being a person of color so the idea of you're a poc and I'm a poc therefore we have the same experience is not necessarily true and I was really worried that was the reason why and so I was like I don't feel that and I definitely feel like differences and my friend was 01:22:00like right but I don't want to deal with racism. And so there are other problems we can face that don't need to involve waking up to someone trying to touch my hair. Or you know something super racist. And then like Octavia when we were all put together I actually thought that was really racist I was like "really they put all of the Hispanic kids together?" in one group like that is so racist? First of all it doesn't even mean that I know all that Octavia has been through and Octavia doesn't know all that I have been through. Uhm And then now listening to everyone and their experiences and this idea of a choice and a need I have changed my perspective and that doesn't necessarily mean that I don't have concerns or I don't have questions and I think we all have those and those are important. But I think I've reached a point where it doesn't actually matter. I think I can have my own feelings and like that's ok but I would rather support something that people need and have said they need then block it because 01:23:00of my philosophical or ideological viewpoint because that is so small. So I think uhm. I think everyone has the potential here to change and I have definitely changed how I viewed it because in the beginning I was opposed.[Malta]: I was wondering if Tom or someone could expand a little bit of why the proposal for housing was rejected in the beginning of this month if it was. If you could just go a little bit more into detail of the reasons behind it. Just because I don't feel like I have a good grasp of it.[Tom Manley President]: Well it actually wasn't rejected. Uhm the decision was to not make a decision at this point in favor of expanding this conversation like I said earlier it seems to me we're also looking to develop a way of building community 01:24:00here that's not simply one off. Every year we come back and then we start all over and then were going to build community and there is something to build on in terms of principles that we share on in terms of governance, around uhm decision making, around uhm thinking not only what we need but what the larger needs that were going to be serving in the future. So a decision hasn't been made that is the first thing. And and secondly it was to make sure that we were honoring uhm other goals that were being advanced for Antioch in terms of how 01:25:00we, we govern the college, and involve more then just one group whether it's an administrative group or whether it's the faculty or even if it's the trustees who ultimately may have authority but don't make all of the decisions for the college. So that's how I would explain that. Can I turn that around and ask another framing question? We've had a sort of sense that the trustees weighed in and some members of the alumni board weighed in and said well you know this was our experience or these are the concerns we've had. I wonder what anyone was 01:26:00thinking about what long range concerns we have what things should we be considering in making a decision about this that a board member would actually be thinking about. It's not that there are just a bunch of people just sitting around waiting to say no. You know. Right? Uhm. in my brief experience with the Antioch board right now they have a very clear understanding of what their job is what their role is and in helping support us to build an institution that uhm that we need not necessarily the one that always expresses what we want at that point. So I always find it useful to stop my head, my left brain, kind of linear 01:27:00process, and step out of it and ask what's in somebody else's head about this? What would their concerns be? What are their concerns? Maybe they are legitimate? Maybe they won't be right? But it's always a much better way of always organizing your thinking and there are different roles around the table and different sets of responsibilities. I would say to give an analogy when thinking about the resources of the institution you're thinking about them not 01:28:00only if you have a million dollars how am I going to spend all of that million dollars right now, you need to be thinking about, What part of that million dollars do I have to not spend for the resources for the next group of people that are going to come here, that I don't know yet, but I will have some relationship and they're going to be coming and they're going to belong to a community that I'm going to shape. Trustees not only have the responsibility of thinking not only about the needs of the current institution but building the institution over the long run so what would some of the concerns be? [Unnamed Student]: Yeah Malta?[Tom Manley president]: No, I think Malta probably knows that but I'm asking those of us who aren't in those shoes who don't have to make 01:29:00that decision to actually imagine why we are needing a dialogue here. Why some people you mentioned a couple things that you were concerned about or someone said "are we reinstituting Jim crow?" "how is this going to solve the safety issue?" And uh what are they, I'm just dying to get up on the board and separate some of these things because there is the safety issue which is partly addressed but that's not the only thing I'm hearing about this. The word that is screaming out to me is sanctuary. Where is sanctuary for people when they need it and they have to step out of something that is hard and pressing and where do we find that and uhm. But the first question is what do we imagine that people who may 01:30:00have concerns are thinking and what's the basis of their concerns. [Unnamed Student]: Uhm What you were saying before doesn't exactly sound like a rhetorical question. When you were asking uhm, what are some things that ah, members of the board whether the alumni board or board of trustees, what do they need to be thinking about in regards to approving of this. [Tom Manly President]: Yeah what are they afraid of? [Unnamed student]: Uhm, I mean. I don't personally know what they are afraid of but my input was just to give them something to think about in the way that just in their process would be to think about comfortability: the fact that this is our space and this is our home. Think about how we would like to go to a place, and lay our heads in a space 01:31:00where we feel most comfortable and just like they are able to go home and be around people that they love and around people they feel most comfortable with and sleep and rest easy in that area. So even in their decision process I would really push comfortability and be like ok "what do these people need to feel comfortable in their home as I do in my own home." [Tom Manly President]: So I understand that and I think this has been really informative in articulating many compelling arguments and stories in how this would provide that kind of a spike. Like that sort of that greater sense of being able to step away from some of the issues but that's not what I'm asking.[Mila Administrator]: I have an 01:32:00answer. Sounding as horrible as I do. These are assumptions. So I assume. Some we, maybe that might not be the right terminology. Some may reflect on this historical situation we had back in the 70s whenever that was when we had, and I don't really know all of the information. I think there was someone in the area who could talk about it. I think it was people of color who were African American. I think they had a whole building. [Unnamed Student]: West Hall.[Mila Administrator]: Not only a whole building they had a lot of their own things. Macio who is an alum who told me some of the story about it. They had their own classes and they brought in faculty over the weekend and clearly it was a separation for valid reasons to them but apparently it caused some problems for 01:33:00the college. So maybe some are concerned that history will repeat itself. Lets see what else. They might be concerned about what else. I think the college has a historical reputation of being radical and people define that in different ways. But I've heard since I've been here that part of us and some say that was part of our demise. Again I don't know the specifics but I've heard these stories and been told about it. Part of our demise and maybe this is a move into that more radical era that may cause some problems for us as a college, it might impact donors who don't agree with this. Those are some of the things I think that could be on their minds.[Percy]: I'm not Nzingha by the way this is Percy. 01:34:00Speaking to your question about for lack of a better term what those decision makers may be fearing and hearing about the poc housing issue and this tension issue and some alumni may threaten to withdraw their support for the college. It makes me think about the more general vision of what the alumni think the college should be versus what our vision of what the college should be and it kind of speaks to what Mila was saying earlier about what the old Antioch up to it's closure verses the new Antioch. And being here for four years I have 01:35:00observed things that there can be that tension uhm whether it's regarding race or poc or something else on campus or whatever there is always that disagreement with alumni not all alumni but some alumni who have a different vision for what the college normally speaking should be and that tension is kind of set. I can sympathize with that because some people feel very nostalgic about the old Antioch but at the same time we're dealing with a new time, a new age, very different demographics not just nationally but just socially in general and so there is a new Antioch which may not necessarily be compatible with what the old Antioch was. And so that's what I see in the fear of the people who may have that power or what have you to make those decisions and they just fear that what Antioch is becoming now is not what they felt Antioch was before or what they 01:36:00felt Antioch should be. And of course I'm certainly not saying this for all Antioch alumni but this is what I could guess from my experience in what seems to be a classic tension between old Antioch and new Antioch. [Alumni]: So I have a couple of comments. First of all I'm here to listen, and to educate myself, so that I can be better informed and understand at a deeper level what the issues are that the community is dealing with as opposed to sitting some place up in an ivory tower and not have this kind of contact with folks. The second thing is I'm a passionate believer in the whole idea that is called shared governance. 01:37:00Which means it is a model that involves the governance of the institution of college that students participate, that faculty participate, and trustees participate, collaboratively. And I believe this is one of the very unique special characteristics of Antioch's history uhm, the third thing is i'm not hung up on this whole question of the past, and what we were, and what we became. I think the opportunity is to be the institution that is unique and special for the 21st century as we think about building for the future and not getting hung up on the past. There are always people that get hung up on the 01:38:00past. There is no way you can avoid it and there are some folks that I know. Who were here at the same time I was from 1961 to 1966 that will go "remember those times that are unique and special, why don't we try to recreate that?" Well we can't. It's not realistic and it's not relevant. The last comment I have is that uhm I'm an individual trustee I don't speak for the whole board. We have eighteen persons that are on the board of trustees and we have all kinds of different opinions and points of view and ultimately at the end of the day from my perspective this issue has to be, come to closure and the community has to come to closure and have a point of view and an agreement on how to move 01:39:00forward. As a trustee I'm not going to say "well I don't agree with that because that's not appropriate." Because personally I don't think this is an issue that the trustees need to weigh in on but I'm just one individual trustee I'm not the whole board. So what I'm saying is it's something that the community has to resolve and however the community resolves it to the satisfaction you can't get everybody under the tent but if you can get eighty percent of the folks under the tent that's, I'm cool with that, that's great. [Meli]: I just wanted to say and I'm not sure it's a concern the trustees or the alumni board necessarily have. But they really should. In terms of retention as the number of students of color increase and the fact that we're actually a college the expectations of 01:40:00students coming in have changed and even though the current third fourth and second years have like a certain amount of grit and resilience for Antioch as the way it is but that can't be said for the classes that are incoming and are going to continue to come into school and as we saw from the first years it is very clear that if we don't have support systems they will definitely leave especially if they are paying for the education that they currently have and I found one of the biggest support systems for me was the community of the students of color that already existed. They were like "Antioch is this place that like you know has its problems but we're here for you if you need but it's like great." and then last quarter while talking to the students of color they were like "why should we stay here" and I spent such a long time trying to give excuses as to why you should stay here and I still can't find them. Like I allowed a lot of my really good friends from that year to decide that they were going to leave and they aren't coming back. And so I would be seriously 01:41:00concerned if you don't make the students of color that are already here feel comfortable and not leave that your students of color population in four years, and two years, and a year from now that it's going to be so low it's going to be hard to attract that kind of diversity again and sustain it. So even if you start talking about segregation or etc, etc, etc, or any concern that we have that should be the number one concern because you can't just keep bringing them in only to have them leave at the rate that they're going. And I wouldn't put it off that "oh yeah the future students will have this time to be blah blah blah" and like we can build this community for future Antiochians and we all in this room are committed to it and that's why we have so many fourth years who aren't even going to be in this room to experience it but they're all ready to put their voices in and they're willing to fight a good fight for their future Antiochians. And I'm willing to do that too but I still have two years here, I don't want to spend the next two years here fighting for the people who are going to benefit from the hard work. Like sorry I'm not that selfish, selfless, I'm pretty selfish. Uhm Yeah I would just, that's, a consideration that we don't 01:42:00really talk about enough and I'm really glad we're taking time to be proactive and really concerned and dedicated to the solution but it can't take my whole entire year here where I don't see any feedback any resolution to anything that is like "yeah Antioch is really committed to this and we're going to work on this problem" Like it can't take forever and ever and ever. I also think experimentation was an experiment that is what Antioch is. We're always talking about innovation and ideas and how we're just gonna build up all of this stuff and I feel like this could be an experiment on it's own like we're not saying the first implementation has to be the permanent . This is how we're going to do it from this point onwards. We're just saying we're going to give it a try and build the support now so that way we can build up all of these other support systems and become a community that can sustain it with or without the poc hall but right now the poc hall is a solution that is going to hold and sustain our 01:43:00population long enough for there to be actual resolution. So that's my thing.[Tom Manley President]: I think that was really well said. I think that proposition and that is a proposition right? Lined this up with the college's mission and vision, the mission being to live your education and apply your education and change the world through that and find new and better ways of living right? And we have to test that. The whole history of this college has been educational experimentation and this college has been a lab to try things. And in a lab you agree that you're going to try things you frame things up right? You work through some way of measuring what's successful and what's not successful and then you evaluate it at some point and you come back and say that 01:44:00didn't work or that worked at fifty percent how do we change this and I think that is a good way to approach something like this or for any of the things that we do. When we talk about the Antioch of the present verses the Antioch of the future what I was getting out before is that some of the people's responsibility is to uhm help us think about what Antioch of the present is that preserves the possibility of the Antioch of the future that also addresses the needs of the people that will come after us. Right? So we have that response. I think that is one of the responsibilities that communities have. I don't have the answer but I 01:45:00think that is the process of dialogue and what shared governance is supposed to work out so if the proposition is to come forward with and you had asked me before why did we say no? I think that was an interesting interpretation of what was said. And that's ok I think that's what most people would see that as like well were not going to do that now therefore were not going to do it. It seems to me what we should all say though is ok if everybody voted right, appoint one person to keep their eyes open and everybody else raises their hand for or against. And lets say everybody raises their hand for does that mean we should 01:46:00move forward with the hall of color for Antioch or does that mean that we have a sense that there is a significant portion of people at Antioch that see this as something that we want to test and then where do we go with it? Are there forums? And maybe the forums are broken now I understand that. Uh, and I understand that this can't take making decisions for people that are here now can't take four years or six months we need to have a process so that when we we look back on the decision that we made we can say to each other that wasn't the right decision necessarily looking back but we had a process. People had an opportunity to voice their ideas to make it a better idea to critique it to make it a better idea and then we agreed on trying things and were not in some kind 01:47:00of an endless loop and it's not about perfection but it's about new and better ways so I don't know how much time we have but I wanted to make sure we did spend some time talking about what happens next where does this process go and what is a realistic time frame of getting to shaping something that could work. [Mila Administrator]: I think we have a queue here have you kept track?[Tom Manley President]: Did I just jump the queue?[Lucas]: Uhm I just wanted to talk about what we talked about on the day of disappearance as far as we felt was the 01:48:00next actions and correct me if I'm wrong or uhm. But what we felt was the next actions and correct me if I'm wrong but uh what we felt what we want, we understand that this is coming from a much higher up position, and there are other inputs of not necessarily people in this room there are other people who have a really big stake in this that are making decisions and we really want the opportunity to talk to them and tell them how we feel about this issue and we feel like it might be more valuable coming from students how we feel about this issue as a group and so uhm to really gain the opportunity to talk to board members, to talk to donors, to talk to people, that's something we would really like the opportunity to do and uhm it's great if we can do it all together so if you can help us and we can do this all together really know who do we need to talk to who do we need to change their mind. If you can help us I think that would really be I think the ideal situation.[Tom Manley, President]: I think 01:49:00that would be very effective uhm but I want to clarify I think and re enforce something. While there are board members that have opinions, strong opinions, perhaps about this and what I was trying to get at before was trying to get us to be in a point of empathy uh to sort of understand those viewpoints that their not aimed at as a "no" uhm "we don't like that idea" or "we shouldn't' do that idea" or "it's going to ruin Antioch" or maybe some people would look and be like "Oh my gosh not, not that again." I mean I can tell you just personally since I'm much closer in age to the board members in fact and older then some of you, actually older than all of you except Malta of course, I'm sorry. I can 01:50:00imagine an example. I was in Boston last week end and I realized my formative experience in Boston was 1974 and it was a movement to integrate schools in Boston a movement from south Boston so kids from other areas of Boston could go to better schools and get kids out of south Boston to go to better schools and that was a battle in a northern city right it was, ten years after the civil rights movement in the south and there was still tremendous segregation in the country and in some cases there still is. Uh that a lot of people don't know that was a violent battle. My second day in the city I was handing out leaflets 01:51:00on a corner in south Boston and the guy who was standing next to me who I didn't really know but he was also there was handing out leaflets too and uhm I turned just in time to see these guys walking up with big smiles on their face and one guy had a baseball bat behind his bat, he took the bat back out and he crushed the guys skull and the feeling of blood on my back and on my face I can still feel it today and a lot of people went through really powerful experiences and one of our board members brothers was Andrew Goodman. Uhm so when their first response to this is wait you know we fought so hard actually to open things up this seems to us like we're going backwards. Now I don't think the kind of conversation that I've heard today is going backwards at all and now I agree 01:52:00that is really important for that for it to be a discussion that opens up and includes people whose first reaction is "no why would we do that" but you have to sort of understand they're not standing in line to say no to shut something down because they're afraid people won't make donations but there is that fear that some people will say "no I'm not down with that" and uhm that's the kind of empathy I think it helps if you go into the room and then you're talking to people of you can say "listen we understand that this doesn't seem like what a lot of you may have fought for and stood for but here is why it's important now because we're not in 1975 or 1965 or 1955" there are elements of jim crow that 01:53:00are still alive and well and not only around issues of race uh so that's that's a suggestion in terms of a tactical suggestion in terms of how to approach it and think about it. And yes I think we can help broker a conversation for the rest of the community the decision will be largely made by the community that's at antioch college now. I think it's smart for us to allow alumni to weigh in on it. To create you know dialogue on it as well so people don't feel like they've been shut out but the alumni understand too this is your education now. They've had their shot at this before. It was powerful for them, they want it to be powerful for you, they want it to be relevant for you. So it's not a question of 01:54:00current students against past alumni or ya know current students against the board or the administration. it's about how we shape an understanding and get not consensus but how we get understanding and support.[Unnamed student]: So first of all this dialogue has been very helpful to understand different perspectives on this. And that is one benefit to slowing the process down to reflect back on how the decision was made. I think uhm getting board members or alumni who have experienced similar experiences such as those to understand where the students are coming at and not just to shut them down of this idea 01:55:00that we don't care if you think it's segregation is what we need. Because that was my initial fear of self segregation and this book mention of is it a coping mechanism or self segregation the way I look at it I mean this few hours there is like a small chance that there is, there is a coping mechanism. When the voices ask what are other peoples opinion like mine where I'm not even attacked I shouldn't necessarily weigh in as much as those who are and there voices should be taken and weighed into much more and like yeah it was mentioned earlier we shouldn't worry but we may appear to the older world but what matters 01:56:00is our world because people are getting attacked. I feel like that may help at least because I was struggling with the idea of self segregation as a coping mechanism. But if it's a coping mechanism I think that's a better way to explain to people who think it would be segregating and moving backwards. [Meli]: So you posed the question next steps and what should that look like. I wonder if that would look like another meeting in a month or if that would look like emailing correspondence and seeing if individually, as in ya'll and poc students, not like each person, anyway, I wonder if that would look like discussion between 01:57:00the groups because meetings suck and no one wants more meetings. If we could just dialogue more about like if we wanted to make this a community meeting or not really this quarter because like, yeah. Or a community meeting type situation or a Friday forum type situation or kind of just like a panel I feel like next steps is we would like to know where the community is at in regards to POC housing because that seems to be the question that your asking and if we're just waiting for community input before we make the decision? I guess the question is the decision coming from the president's staff like is that person who is going to inform the community that this decision has been made and how are we translating or communicating that to poc students. Does that make any sense? The question was what steps? I don't know we'd be down for whatever I 01:58:00think because we really want to be engaged in this dialogue and this discussion because we feel very left out in the past couple of weeks. I think we'd be open to whatever kind of dialogue is necessary in order to not only present our opinions forward and make sure that people understand where we are coming from and that we are not trying to be a certain type of way but we really are just doing this for us and to build community and support for ourselves. And so it is really up to you what that would look like because y'all are the busy ones. [Tom Manley President]: Well I wouldn't say that. It's not that I'm not busy.[Meli]: Yes but you have more strings. [Tom Manley President] I think we have a different set of responsibilities. You're responsibilities, I always make myself a note to keep my mouth shut at least until the end. But. someone once said what 01:59:00is the job of the student? The job of the student isn't the same as the job of the faculty member here, isn't the same as the job of some of the administrators here, or the volunteers thank you unpaid. So I'm always wanting to be mindful of that what are the roles and the responsibilities of that if you're sharing, even if there's shared governance there is shared authority where you make decisions where your authority is being delegated you still have to do your job and your job is to claim your education from this place in the best possible way you can and that's a very particular individual job to by the way. Uhm My job isn't, my job relates to that by creating new sources and the possibilities for you to do 02:00:00it but as I said before it also has some parameters around it. It requires doing it in a way that preserves the possibility that the college can get stronger and can do that even better and can learn from your experiences and uhm to make sure that there is, that there is a possibility of Antioch in the future so I'm really aware of my job and what it is so what I suggest to you is that we continue to work together on this and that we can get to ah decision and that that decision uhm will reflect the best thinking of the people at Antioch now. That would be a good decision even if it turned out ultimately that that 02:01:00decision itself was something that didn't work out or it changed in some way or it became as somebody said that it wouldn't be necessary. I think there is a lot more to this that we haven't talked about the pedagogical parts what this college is aiming to do. Some of you referenced it when you had reservations initially about ya know how do you learn across cultures. How do you learn to be with people that aren't like you? I always like to add this too. How do you learn to be with people who aren't like you? Work with people who aren't like you? And sometimes be with people and work with them and be with people that you don't like? Because that's kind of what the world is about right? And work with 02:02:00people that you don't like without going to war with them without marginalizing them? So I think we can bring the community around. The mechanisms aren't around. I'd like to dedicate the last few minutes to some of the ways. Somebody brought up the community meeting, uhm we can write a proposition that goes out to the community that can be shared that asks for comments back, explaining and capturing what this dialogue has yielded right? In terms of thinking and then and then propose that and send it an invite comments form the trustees and invite comments from the alumni board and larger alumni invite comment and then have a community meeting that is designed to really elicit more dialogue not just make a presentation but with certain interactions that would allow the 02:03:00community to support the decision. I don't favor a referendum. My job is to listen to everyone and then make a decision. [Mila Administrator]: We have two minutes or three. Can she ask a question for me?[Unnamed administrator]: How can we get the alumni and the trustees overall more involved in this overall process? Hearing what is being said etc?[Tom Manley President]: Would you be willing for a group of people to draft something?[Meli]: Yeah, So we were going to write a letter or an essay for the independent which is how we were gonna talk to the donors and things and of course we were very willing as Lucas had 02:04:00said to contact the board of trustees or the board of alumni and write an email letter to them or what ever we are really quite open and we just don't fully understand what the next step is because the ball isn't in our quart anymore it's definitely in yalls quart which is what I was trying to get at like what do we need to do from this point. Like do you need us to write a letter to help yalls with the reconstruction because as you said it isn't' a poc driven initiative anymore it's something the institution has taken up and so we want to know what yalls next step is so the question being posed to us we don't know how to answer because it's not our question it's not our game. Yes and so we still don't fully understand how we would get from this meeting to you sending out an email stating that poc housing has been approved or it's going to be created. Like I don't know if someone else saw it but I don't think we fully understand. 02:05:00[Tom Manley President]: So what I am saying is uhm yeah I could go and make a decision based on what I learned from this meeting. And I could have I guess made a decision based on the initial recommendations that were made. I don't think that even at this point that a decision would honor the values that we stand for at Antioch in terms of engaging community I'm not saying that this process has to be months and years long maybe we could get to it in weeks or ah by the alumni board meeting in June and by the board meeting in June in the meantime I think it shifts from now. I think that the students of color, the people of color groups has done its job in bringing forth the issue and we've 02:06:00now had several dialogues and need to document them and the case for this, and then we need to bring that case to the wider Antioch community through community meetings. I think you do have something to say about that.[Unnamed student]:Yes[Tom Manley President]: You did ask to be involved in that[Unnamed student]:Yes [Tom Manley President]: So that's what I'm saying, it's not like you have to make the argument alone where do we go next. How do we propose uhm that we have someone here from Comcil.[Unnamed student]:Lol [Tom Manley President]: Maybe this is something for Comcil? Because we're trying to figure out how Comcil becomes foregrounded in terms of governance of the college? Maybe we turn this over to Comcil. Here is the proposition that comes forward: we want this discussed more broadly at the community with a sense of a recommendation coming back through Comcil to me. [Unnamed student]: Oh yes, yup I will totally 02:07:00get on that. I feel like there hasn't been. I'm sorry, what? So do you mean like? Do you mean? But then so Comcil?[Tom Manley President]: It's not that Comcil makes the decision, it's that Comcil helps design how to reach out to the community. It's that it designs the conversation going from this point.[Unnamed student]: Well we have a meeting in like an hour. [Tom Manley President]: That would be ideal.[Mila Administrator]: Meli you had some interesting ideas about drafting some sort of letter statement or thought piece to the board of trustees and other places. And so there is avenues for making those and there is a tact.[Unnamed student]: But that doesn't recognize the fact that I mean if she just says that from the people of color to the board of trustees it doesn't 02:08:00recognize that she has engaged this group along the way. And so that's why I think it should come from the community and the president's staff.[Tom Manley President]: I think you should. It's not that you should.[Unnamed student]: I feel like the responsibility is being shifted. [Tom Manley President]: If the board, it's not the board of governance is not going to say no and the alumni board doesn't have any authority to say no but they do have that influence what's that kind of influence that influence of uhm well uhm. Well the board ultimately does have the authority to say no but it won't say no if the community moves 02:09:00forward and says look at our process we've had a set of recommendations we've vented on it we've dialogued on it and then it's my job to go to the board and say I agree with that or I don't agree with that. I think the process that you have to design now or the proposal the advocacy goes now to the wider community you have to honor that process and in doing that you write a compelling piece that can also go to the board and that's great. [Unnamed administrator]: Which 02:10:00goes to my point that the broader community does include board and alumni and community even some local community members support that change. [Mila Administrator]: Andy was there one more quick commentary you want to make Andy? [Andy Staff]: So I think the corollary to whether we should do it is how we should do it? And I think if people are comfortable I'll throw myself out there and say that people want to start engaging in conversation in what this might look like since we have a proposal out there I think I can throw myself out there and say we've talked through some of the logistical things in some of the implementation of past schools that have done this. [Kimberly]: I have a question I don't know. I guess we're wrapping up so I don't know if we have a question or not. [Mila administrator]: We do need to reconvene but I think I can send out an electronic survey to put your thoughts in on how it went. 02:11:00[Inaudible][unnamed student]: So the question is why are we having to take so many steps in the process could you help me out?[Kimberly]: I support the dialogue, I'm not against the dialogue, we're involved in the community meeting and I'm not against that and that's not what I was trying to say with this question I guess I was thinking about it and I guess I feel like there all of the other recommendations there were two other recommendations in the first two are the ones that were talking about now and the last eight that have went through and been approved and is being worked on and this conversation is not happening around those other eight recommendations. And again I approve and I 02:12:00agree but like all of these steps are happening for these two recommendations and why I guess? I understand why but why??[Unnamed student]: Before you know it four years has passed and then you have an alumni who is very unexcited about the experience. [Tom Manley President]: Before you go I understand that there is student time and there is institutional time and those aren't exactly the same thing. The recommendation around the all of color is different then the other seven things. The other seven things were completely in keeping with and you could maybe argue and I would listen to the argument is completely in the spirit 02:13:00within the strategic plan that the college has been working on. For a long time before I got here and one of the things that Mila and I talked about when I met her in the presidential search committee is how do we make sure we don't get to the end of making that plan and have it put on a shelf some place and start to make it real. So we were talking about most of those other seven things accept for dealing with the uh failure of the college to actually recognize the extent of issues on the ground or at least recognize that the other six things then were all very clearly in the frame of the strategic plan and some other things too we haven't exactly gone public with this yet. So in addition to agreeing to the uh everything else in the action plan we're also moving forward with two new 02:14:00positions at the college one is a senior position around diversity and inclusion to make sure we're actually holding ourselves accountable For everything else that's in that plan and all of the things that are in the recommendation as it turns out and another staff position to support diversity and people of color at Antioch and those are two things that weren't even in the list that we're gonna do and the other things all were in the wheelhouse of the strategic plan so it was easy to say yes ya know because they were there and we were going to, we already agreed to take up those tasks. The last one didn't seem so easy because we didn't even have a philosophy around residence life at Antioch. We weren't 02:15:00able to answer a lot of the questions that had come up. [Unnamed Student]: I guess my concern is that since this is race and a lot of people are bringing up segregation. My concern then is that Antioch understands diversity to counting heads of how many poc they can mix with in the population on campus and I guess that's just my concern everything else has been approved just because it's inline with your strategic plan and everybody else is onboard with it because it is in line with that. So does a poc only hall not correlate with that plan because it then again does having poc and like different bodies and like different communities is that how we consider diversity to be? [Mila Administrator]: We need to conclude.[Tom Manley President]: I'm willing to 02:16:00actually continue.