Leandre Ndarugendanye

[Mari K Smith]: Hello Hello Hello. Do you mind saying something?

[Leandre Ndarugendanye]: Hello Hello Hello

[Mari K Smith]: Can you first state your name and your year at Antioch?

[Leandre Ndarugendanye]: My name is Leandre Ndarugendanye and I am a first year at Antioch.

[Mari K Smith]: Ok first question. How do you feel about the statement race is not real?

[Leandre Ndarugendanye]: Well we all know that is a something that, it happens in the united states for a very very long time after the abolishment of slavery I guess. The segregation I guess is real for anyone I guess. I'm from Chicago I guess and for example segregation is still real there and it's very real that is still a problem.

[Mari K Smith]: That's racism but what about when people say race itself what about the concept of race?

[Leandre Ndarugendanye]: Oh race as in I have my own race?

[Mari K Smith]: Yea. like people saying race is not real?

[Leandre Ndarugendanye]: Well we all know we have a different color and have different cultures and ideology. Culture is real so if someone says culture is not real that's not true at all because everyone is different and different backgrounds.

[Mari K Smith]: So you believe race is not real either?

[Leandre Ndarugendanye]: No I believe race is real

[Mari K Smith]: Have you ever encountered some sort of argument that race is not real? And how did you respond?

[Leandre Ndarugendanye]: No I have not.

[Mari K Smith]: How would you hypothetically respond if someone were to tell you race is not real?

[Leandre Ndarugendanye]: I would explain why race is real because every person is different as I said before like skin color.

[Mari K Smith]: So you're saying skin color is a part of your identity?

[Leandre Ndarugendanye]: Partly yea, Like how people store up an appropriate culture or something like that. Culture is a big thing that defines race in this case. Like I have my own culture you have your own culture. That is how we differentiate ourselves by race. I think that is what race is.

[Mari K Smith]: So what are your feelings or thoughts on Antioch's POC culture on campus?

[Leandre Ndarugendanye]: It needs to expand. We are very small. The thing is we are starting this as part of the new constitution. Like I said its very small it should be 00:03:00bigger for POC students Latin, Hispanic, Black, Asian to like come together to create a good environment for studying and student success and developing relationships also.

[Mari K Smith]: How do you feel about it right now? Obviously there is potential but how do you feel about it right now?

[Leandre Ndarugendanye]: Right now there is a lot of things that need to be worked on right now. Recently there have been a lot of things going on right now. Problems with something that would make me say racism is real right now. Students have been receiving notes right now, students have been attacked. Pretty much that yeah.

[Mari K Smith]: Would you say that the POC culture at Antioch positively influences the mainstream culture at Antioch? What sort of presence do you think it has in relation to the mainstream culture?

[Leandre Ndarugendanye]: I believe it brings diversity to the college. Antioch is really good at being, at having diversity. POC culture is big at Antioch college. I think now we're lacking in diversity. I wish we had more of that I guess. I don't know if that answered the question I guess.

[Mari K Smith]: Oh no that's fine! So you definitely believe it is a positive thing at Antioch?

[Leandre Ndarugendanye]: Yea its definitely a positive thing at Antioch. Because a student wouldn't go out of their way to learn about race if it weren't for the diversity 00:05:00at Antioch. White students or non-POC students to learn about POC culture like this. We need to learn about how to react to not react but uh be involved in the movement of understanding each other. How can we better work together?

[Mari K Smith]: Do you feel that there is a large amount of responsibility of POC students to educate white students?

[Leandre Ndarugendanye]: Yes, we had a big discussion about that at our day of disappearance here at Antioch last week. People were tired of educating white students what to 00:06:00do and not what to do. The concept of allies, what to do and how to better support us. Students doing things over and over again, people are tired of that.

[Mari K Smith]: Very good segue, please explain the POC day of disappearance in your own words and how you think it was impactful or not impactful?

[leandre Ndarugendanye]: First ah the idea was for this thing to happen the students needed a space where they could feel comfortable living learning everything like that. The idea was to show white students what it means for us to not be there. What 00:07:00it means to be at Antioch without POC students I guess that was the big thing. They had a very productive day because POC faculty even came to the event, I wouldn't call it an event because it wasn't an event but it was definitely a way to get with each other and figure out how other people feel about a POC hall and how to better support ourselves within this community. This white dominated community I guess.

[Mari K Smith]: What I'm hearing is there was an impact with the students of Antioch but there was also an impact within ourselves on that day. Could you 00:08:00describe that a little more I guess?

[Leandre Ndarugendanye]: For me because I can't speak for anyone else. I had a good day. I felt like it was a productive day, it was kind of therapeutic in a way. I got to meet with other students like me I guess. There was a POC student who had been there. They were excited like it could actually happen. Many students were discussing safety but I never had any personal aggressions against me but I feel like that could be a good idea for students to have a POC hall because you could have that homey feeling like being at home at times.

[Mari K Smith]: How do you feel about the fact that it's largely been women of color that have been targeted in these recent offenses.

[Leandre Ndarugendanye]: Well I don't know why because part of the huge thing is there have been a lot of male POC that have been involved. Like I only know five male POC here. That could probably be why. There is a good amount of female POC students here. More than male.

[Mari K Smith]: Sorry if I'm dwelling I like to ask follow up questions you know. Do you think a POC hall is a form of self segregation?

[Leandre Ndarugendanye]: Yea that came up a lot in the previous meetings we've had with the president and his staff. The thing is I don't think so because if we act that 00:10:00way. Ah--

[Mari K Smith]: I'm going to edit this down. You can cough, you can do anything, don't be afraid to take pauses.

[Leandre Ndarugendanye]: I don't think it's a form of segregation I guess because there is like a hall for women and women of color want their own space so they don't have to educate anyone in this case they need the feeling of safety I guess in this case. To answer your question of segregation I think is it really segregation to ask for a safe place to study and learn?

[Mari K Smith]: So women have their own hall, how do you think a POC hall would be different if at all?

[Leandre Ndarugendanye]: The thing is with race is that racism is a really really sensitive topic. Then just like gender because like we face gender like I don't know we talk about it a lot more than race. People are a lot more open to talking about that then race. People support that. We're trying to show that we don't have the problem but that's the thing is it makes people very very sensitive to that. It's brought a lot when talking about women of color having their own hall.

[Mari K Smith]: Do you think a POC hall is necessary on a small liberal arts campus like Antioch? It doesn't necessarily have to be at Antioch but why do you think we should be on a small liberal arts campus if so.

[Leandre Ndarugendanye]: I believe that we should. There is an institution that needs to have more concentration of POC diversity. Those students learn how to, I guess every institution needs diversity no matter what I guess. The thing that shows is, that ah the world has changed a lot more than it has in the past forty or sixty years. Sorry I can do this

[Mari K Smith]: No no no You're doing fine. This goes back to the first question but how do you feel about the word segregation in general?

[Leandre Ndarugendanye]: Segregation in general? I feel like I'm here today because of the word segregation actually. It came from ethnic battle between two people. That's the same thing with racism in the United states because two different ethnic groups or not ethnic groups but races against each other. The word segregation 00:14:00is ah, I feel like the separation between race. Race before is segregation. It's an act of segregation.

[Mari K Smith]: How do you feel to be a person of color at Antioch? Do you feel good about that?

[Leandre Ndarugendanye]: I'm always confident with myself as a black male student. I don't feel like I would feel any different if I was white. I would want to educate myself, how can I better support myself. Now that I'm a black student. How do I 00:15:00educate the white students now that I'm a black student?

[Mari K Smith]: Why do you say now that you're a black student?

[Leandre Ndarugendanye]: Well I've always been black. I'm just saying if I was white or not POC I'd find a way to educate myself and better support POC students in this case.

[Mari K Smith]: Do you think the students here are not doing a satisfactory job of educating themselves on the issues of students of color?

[Leandre Ndarugendanye]: I mean not as effective as this shoot I guess. We constantly see things that happen that they shouldn't do and I'm pretty sure at least someone has educated them to not do that I guess. This is where the issue starts.

[Mari K Smith]: Yellow springs was once a place of great diversity as well as a safe haven for people of color greatly due to the presence of Antioch and that was once a thing. How do you believe the prospects of the current Antioch are in terms of getting back to that safe haven?

[Leandre Ndarugendanye]: Well I think there are a lot of things that make diversity not happen in yellow springs one of the things is what was it called--.gentrification. Gentrification the process here is really high up for diversity to happen in the first place. If you're lower class this isn't the place for you. Whereas then it was more flexible with classes. We were all different classes. Doors were opened up to the POC population and having great diversity I guess for the population. 00:17:00The town is not a place for lower classes unless you are middle class or upper class you can't live here in a way I think.

[Mari K Smith]: Some other students within our rhetoric have spoken about how sometimes it feels as though there is a person of color quota and it's a façade. How do you feel about that idea?

[Leandre Ndarugendanye]: Like what?

[Mari K Smith]: Like there is a quota for the people they try to bring to Antioch and it feels forced. How do you feel about that?

[Leandre Ndarugendanye]: That is a very true statement I feel like. First of all the previous 00:18:00president, Mark Roosevelt, was like "ok this college now will try to find students who can not afford to go to college." he had a very forced number of students. They need to do a better job of students once they're here at college. How could we support them better. That's the thing yea it's forced.

[Mari K Smith]: In terms of the housing issue going off of that idea. If they're trying to force integration, that would make sense why they're trying to spearhead the concept of not wanting POC housing. How would you argue against that?

[Leandre Ndarugendanye]: How would you argue against what?

[Mari K Smith]: How would you argue against the idea that POC housing would not encourage diversity?

[Leandre Ndarugendanye]: One thing someone mentioned in our previous meeting was that If POC students don't feel like they don't have a place they belong to they will not come here. In a way this having a POC hall would help attract the POC students who apply here once they come visit this is a place they belong too they will have separate belonging. That is the argument I would make if someone asks how that would look like to POC students. The student retention rate is getting 00:20:00lower and lower and lower every year, one of them is diversity. If they don't feel like they have a place to belong to then yea.

[Mari K Smith]: There has been an argument about how culture is very integrated into a sense of belonging. How do you feel about that idea? Do you feel like you feel better integrated into something where culture exists? Or do you feel that it is being surrounded by white people not having a sense of comradery?

[Leandre Ndarugendanye]: I'm sorry what?

[Mari K Smith]: The concept of culture and do you believe that it can flourish 00:21:00in a POC house?

[Leandre Ndarugendanye]: A POC house as hub for culture?

[Mari K Smith]: A hub for culture.

[Leandre Ndarugendanye]: The thing is having a POC hall will create this culture because everybody is doing their own thing. I believe if POC students came together they would have this culture they create. They'd be free to be who they are and not 00:22:00hide themselves. I feel like culture is doing what you believe in right? So like if you have the space to be who you are or what you want to be, this culture is a healthy environment where people express their culture and share their culture.

[Mari K Smith]: What social constructs do you believe exist on campus right now that help contribute to racism?

[Leandre Ndarugendanye]: Social media is a big thing. People just say random shit because they feel like they have this anonymous identity. The internet allows them to do what they want because they feel like they can do anything without being attacked 00:23:00back right. I feel like Antioch ahs the freedom of people doing whatever they want because they can attack or not attack

[Mari K Smith]: Call out?

[Leandre Ndarugendanye]: Not call out but like liberate. They do not recruit. No no not call out. They construct. Liberate not liberate either--.They liberate people to do whatever they want and do whatever they believe in I guess as long as it's not racism I guess.

[Mari K Smith]: So you're saying the self righteous constructs are what contribute to racism here?

[Leandre Ndarugendanye]: Yeah and they come in from different places right? Like some people have just never met these people before. Difference in their lives once they get 00:24:00into college. That's what contributes to racism is they think about themselves.

[Mari K Smith]: Well that's all of the questions I've had for you. Do you have anything else you want to add or anything else you want to touch on?