Mari Smith

Alyssa Navarrette: Okay so I am Alyssa Navarrete. I am going to interview Mari K Smith. Okay, Mari can you tell me your full name? and what year you are? Mari K Smith: My name is Marie Kikuchi Smith and I'm a first year at Antioch College.

Alyssa Navarrette: Great, okay so how do you feel about the statement "race is not real"? Mari K Smith: I think that, that's a statement said by the wrong people all of the time. Obviously people can have opinions about like "oh like we don't have racism, we have tribalism" you know like the concept of just having prejudice against people that aren't from like your family, your town, your city, your country, but I feel like whenever I hear arguments of when race 00:01:00isn't real, especially, like on our campus, or just around people, it's like they're trying to excuse the fact of racism still existing and still being alive and well but conceptually, like people, especially people of color, who want to say, race isn't real and like, because, you know, we've just used it very conveniently throughout time. I think that's a perfectly fine argument to have, but when I hear, especially people that are not of color, say things like that it's, it's been like, it's been used for the wrong reasons.

Alyssa Navarette: Okay tribalism was very interesting to me. I've never heard that, it's an interesting perspective. Why do you think it makes you feel uncomfortable in a sense when non-people of color say that race isn't real?

Mari K Smith: I mean like because I've had conversations with people saying, like oh you know like we're all from that one tribe in Africa and then we, you know migrated north to Europe, and then across Asia, and then the Antarctic, and 00:02:00you know Alaska, and then there's the Icebridge. All this shit, all this stupid stuff, about how like you know race is a construct that we've created and that we shouldn't be sorry. "I'm looking away" race is a construct that we created, and that like it's the 21st century, it's 2016, we all should be over it by now. And it's almost, [pause] like it's just people that don't want to see race when it's very prevalent you know? I feel like it's almost a denial of people of color in a way, because I have a race, and it's not white, and I'm allowed to have that. And it's, and I'm different, and I'm culturally different. I look different, and within that there's a sense of identity that's being denied when 00:03:00someone tells me like race isn't real. I haven't, [Pause] I've only heard like, [pause] I've barely heard any people of color ever saying that. When it was, it was saying race isn't real because of like the things that you said like because like race has been like redefined so many times for legal reasons throughout the history of especially the United States and like slavery and that great you know lineage of where our country has come from but other than that like it's just been all white people trying to pretend like racism is over because it's where you know it was so long ago that anything of significance happened in terms of race tension and that's just a huge lie so yeah that makes me upset.

Alyssa Navarette: That's understandable, what are your feelings or thoughts on the POC culture on Antioch's campus?

Mari K Smith: I have kind of a unique perspective on it. I think because my 00:04:00father's white and my mother is Asian, I'm kind of immersed into both white culture, or just normal culture, mainstream culture of Antioch, if you will, and POC culture. One of the first things that I immediately felt when I was going to POC group and experiencing it was like a great sense of appreciation for each other and kindness and love and kind of like a safe space where everyone feels comfortable checking in. Saying the fact that you go to a group and people ask you about how you're doing, truly, like how you've been doing that week. That concept of a check-in. How everyone checks in, because our struggles from week to week have to do with the color of our skin or the way in which we look. So having that camaraderie is very special and that's something I had never felt 00:05:00before, cause I grew up in a white community and so within myself. I was talking to Lucas Bautista, who also has the same thing, there's a self that's being like healed and there's also like a white self that's being educated. Overall it's been like I felt, through their existence I've been able to grow as a person, and been able to better appreciate where I come from and then seeing that culture and how there's a contrast literally and figuratively on campus to them and the rest of the campus is annoying, because it's definitely intentional to a certain extent. There's women of color not feeling like other people sit with them when they're in groups you know? That's ridiculous. Why does that exist? That's ridiculous. I think that through that POCs groups perseverance it's made Antioch a better place and that [Pause] Antioch needs to acknowledge that more 00:06:00and take what like when we say these things as this group with this influence and this positivity like you just take those things seriously when we ask for housing or we ask for better treatment [pause] yea.

Alyssa Navaratte: Before you started going to POC group what were your initial thoughts did you think it was unnecessary? Did you think it would cause problems? How did you feel about POC group before you started attending meetings?

Mari K Smith: I was a little skeptical because I had, it would be a lie if I said I didn't have any preconceived notions of POC group that had been ingrained in me just because of like on campus like you know the people who are more outspoken about like their views in class and aren't afraid to call people out and going in I felt a little strange because like once again like I'm not like 100 percent 00:07:00like all of this color as you know, other people are, but there's also not as much of an Asian presence in POC group. After seeing those things but then still going and still experiencing it and having some things confirmed about like yeah there's more of like an African-American presence in POC group, but still knowing that or still having these great experiences through it. It definitely solidified the fact that there is this it's amazing and it's lovely and it's a great experience and I'm really happy that I was able to join into it

Alyssa Navaratte: I'm glad do you think that because there's not as much of an Asian presence in POC. Did you feel obligated to go, to like, represent your culture? Because I was like, as a Hispanic, I know that a few people have felt obligated because there's not as much of a presence. Or they haven't felt comfortable going because the POC is mostly African-American or Black?

Mari K Smith: There's a certain amount of obligation because there are like Asian Americans on campus that don't go and I feel like if they're because this is at the end of the day a good thing I wanted because I'm someone who's not afraid to do things like this I did feel a certain amount of obligation and I like talked like Michelle and Gabe and like Yo-yo and like they're and I feel like if I could like get more of a presence I would be happier but yeah there is about certain amount of obligation I felt because we're just such a small campus you know and like you gotta look around and it's like oh where's the representation oh it's me you know. I mean it sounds inherently, sounds a little negative but I mean I'm fine with it I guess you know.

Alyssa Navarette: Okay so what kind of social constructs do you feel contribute 00:09:00to racism specific to our campus?

Mari: Sorry I have to think for a second.

Alyssa Navarette: It's fine it's like a loaded question I wasn't even prepared to answer that myself and I came up with that question.

Mari: I think that, [Pause] and this isn't necessarily a construct but we don't have that many POC teachers, professors now we're in college. We don't have that many POC teachers, professors now we're in college, I think that's one thing I've learned since coming to college is that it's really important as a young person to have someone you look up to who also looks like you and has your cultural experiences. It's important in general to have adults you look up to but especially that factor of it, because seeing that they're successful and that they've also been through what you've been through and you know that someone's looking out for you is super important. Especially navigating such a transient experience like Antioch. I 00:10:00feel like it, I don't want to say that, that contributes to racism, but I think that if other people saw it acknowledged other professors of color like in power and authority somehow it would open up a gateway between like their communication like student, professor, people of color, communication student to student just because there's a comfort that's created within the student and professor relationship. Then the student who has to the white student who has to who has to interact with the person of color professor would then be exposed to that as well. That's one big one that sticks out to me, there's definitely a sexism that's in that like what you said there's mostly I mean just in general 00:11:00women are more involved we only mostly have women on campus women are more involved in like igs women's group, herbalism group, POC group, and I feel like if more of the men that are POC would speak as much as the women would in class when they see injustice or just even show up to things more it would help defuse tension because they understand that the women are have been targeted you know and I'm not calling anyone out but it's I feel like it's almost selfish to want to be like oh I don't want to involve myself in this because these things have happened to this person but it's like we're all in this together you know. I feel like if that would just become more of a thing that men would involve themselves more especially in POC group that it would help defuse some of the racism because like it or not like people are going to listen to men more like 00:12:00so that's a construct within a construct yeah that's all I got I think.

Alyssa Navarette: And do you think that, do you think it's like subconsciously, that less men are attracted to Antioch, because we're presented as such a social justice sustainability school? Do you think that contributes to the fact that we attract more women than men, even though men seem to lead the fields in which where social justice and sustainability wise?

Mari K Smith: I feel like I mean this could be more of a pessimist point of view but people that fight for the oppressed have generally experienced depression so that would mean women and POC or POC women. That's kind of a big pull factor for Antioch and that's why there are a lot of women here but then because the men are such a rarity they're held up to a certain extent and listen to especially because they're men and especially because they're there's so few of them it's 00:13:00like a rare commodity. Alyssa Navarette: Please explain the POC disappearance action to us in your own words as well as to why you felt it was impactful if you felt it was impactful.

Mari K Smith: Okay the POC disappearance was a day where we all did not go to classes did not go to work if that was something available to you, you know like you can't lose your job and still lead a revolution. At the very beginning was a comprehensive, kind of dialogue on what 00:14:00exactly went through in terms of POC communicating with the administration the requests for housing, POC housing, and just all of the interactions that occurred, and then after that there was a faculty and student dialogue that went on but about all of these things. The general rhetoric was that everyone kind of better understood what was happening at the end of the day in terms of "okay so some people would say it is segregationist to put POC in a hall but it's also very necessary that they have that option" and what whichever side you are on I feel like everyone better understood afterwards and so that was kind of a really amazing thing that happened and I think that if we had more dialogues like that that were actually productive and not just people speaking out their opinions as it so happens here very often. It was, it was consensual, and it was respectful, and something productive came out of it. I was really proud of my students, not 00:15:00my students my fellow students in that moment because we had been really tactful this whole time and we had this really productive day and everyone left feeling like they had a better understanding of what was happening so I was like yes but the day of disappearance was to see really initially like what is our appreciation level at this campus are people gonna ask us where we are? like are we are we valued in that way in the eyes of our peers? And some of us got messages like asking where we were. Some of us didn't. We wanted to show like we need to be respected and this is what our campus would be like if we weren't there and these are the things that we're going to need to happen if you want to continue to keep us but despite that interruption it was still tactful and it was still intentional and I was once again very proud of everyone and it 00:16:00really made me within even that day I learned about myself as well as all of these issues that are going on as I think everyone did and I think that our school needs to look at that as like the model of interactive and proactive ways in which we can actually protest against things and get shit done get things done you can edit the first part out yeah.

Alyssa Navarette: Okay I think, I do agree with that. It should be used as a model as another way of non-violent protesting we were inspired to do this by protests that happened on another college campus by people of color as well that attracted a lot of national attention I think it might have been UC Davis I believe when we were discussing this at our POC meeting. Do you think this action after we publish our project and so forth and so on regardless of whether 00:17:00or not we end up getting a POC hall do you think this would be able to inspire other POC and other people across different campuses like Antioch or bigger? Do you think this would be a useful thing to inspire others? Mari K Smith: I definitely think that and I think that one of the reasons I'm still here is that the people of our campus are people that I believe in. I don't like to have this on tape, I don't care but I'm here for the movement of Antioch not the institution of Antioch and obviously there are all these constructs on campus that are made by students but can also be broken by students because that's like why I'm here and that's why I continue to stay here because I see that potential and I, at the day of disappearance, we talked a lot about like linking arms with other campuses as well and I think that if this were to get out there that this 00:18:00is because of the productivity and the movement and the interrupt and the skilled interruption that happened. It'd be a great model for other schools to follow and I think that despite all of the negative feelings that have happened here this was a positive thing that happened even though it was a protest it was very positive for everyone involved. That's ultimately like you know, winning a victory for humanity pretty much. Just sayin.

Alyssa Navarette: Right so even though administration might not have liked what we had done, I mean Horace Mann would have. I'm sure he's cheering us on from the grave

Mari K Smith: Very Much.

Alyssa Navarette: Do you think having a POC hall is a form of self-segregation?

Mari K Smith: I think that if you're looking at the denotation of the word 00:19:00segregation that's exactly what it looks like. But on this campus it's not about what it looks like. It's about speaking to someone and asking them why they want it. The fact that you would just look at something and label it and then continue on is a direct violation of what it means to be here. In this campus this is something necessary and is something that is going to create more culture and happiness for everyone. Using words like segregation are just kind of making people shy away immediately as if they're touching a hot stove. "Oop can't do that" just because, like you had said, it is just because it pertains to race. The word segregation always comes up and at this point it's probably very annoying for those of us that are African-American and have that culture within America. Then having that be brought here when they're asking for something that they would need. I say the word "they" because I don't 00:20:00necessarily feel like I would need that, but if I were to need that it would be ridiculous that I couldn't get that. Based on the fact that women of color have experienced acts of violence on this campus. The other, another facet of this, is just the fact that this is a campus where everyone's always, you know like, disputing and talking about race and sexuality? And it's always on the table right? No matter if you're eating or if you're in class. You always, something's gonna come up and you're just gonna have to feel obligated to be like no I've experienced this. Here's how it is and that is an added pressure to students of color when you're just here to get an education. You're also having to be educated and be the educator and as much as like, like you feel happy, that people care. Having to come home and still do that or having to meet someone in the bathroom and they say something or like you know just knowing that we can 00:21:00all come back to a place and just kind of look around and be like okay we all get it. We're all in the know about these things. We don't have to explain why we are the way we are. Because you said something earlier that really struck with me, like you shouldn't have to explain why you are the way you are. This should be, you want to create, you want to be in an environment of acceptance and happiness and peace and not that that's not creating that by educating, but you won't, you don't want to have to do that all of the time. Imagine having to work even after you come home from work. Then have to get a call from your boss at four in the morning because they're confused about something you know. That's what this is, it's invading your space by still maintaining its presence even in your own home. I think that this is something that impacts quality of life for people of color and that if they want to continue to take care of our people of color the way we should, the way we should be respecting our people of color. 00:22:00That this is a necessary creation in our campus and it's not hard to do you know like I understand there's administrative bureaucracy to deal with but it's doable and it should be done.

Alyssa Navarette: Right I totally agree and one of the things that was brought up on our day of disappearance in a few of our other past POC meetings was that I mean right now it feels as if we're just tolerated. If anything or like our cultures are just tolerated. Having POC on campus are just tolerated and we don't, we don't just want tolerance. We don't just need tolerance. We need acceptance and I think that definitely struck a chord with what you were saying. I also think, I mean you also spoke to just having the choice. We need to have at least the choice. What would you say about the tolerance versus acceptance perspective and having a choice like how that all 00:23:00intertwines.

Mari K Smith: That all intertwines because like honestly like we all understand that like you said there's a quota for people of color here. That's part of the culture they're trying to almost artificially create again. If they want to go through with that they have to accept that that's what this means if you want to have Antioch the way it was in the day the way it used to be, it means you accept people of color you don't tolerate them and you give them the amount of space that they deserve that's what it was. I feel like there's a part of our college that doesn't understand that and they don't understand they're just too afraid to give the students that amount of power 00:24:00again or something. That's exactly what it means to have a college like this and if they signed up for and if they decided this they're going to create it again this is what it means and so that and they need to listen to the actual living culture of this campus and that's what we're saying and we're not whispering we have made it very clear so it's really I mean we've done so much we're continuing to do more and I believe that this is going to change things. Through this I hope that, that the institution of Antioch understands this is what the culture is and you shouldn't be afraid of you know like segregating and looking bad you should be afraid that your students aren't happy because that's not the mission of Antioch.

Alyssa Navarette: In a sense you would say this isn't just, like about, like only POC and like only this POC hall and only like the acts of racism. It's also about holding Antioch college and the administration, faculty, staff, and basically everything as a whole accountable?

Mari K Smith: Yeah, it's, it's part of because, I feel like, I mean everyone here, like it's, it's hard to be here. Everyone knows that whether you're a janitor whether you're the president whether you're a first year it's very hard to be here. If you're just gonna be here to just kind of get through it there's no point in this college existing. You're wasting your time you need to be here because you know that liberal arts education is really corrupt right now. You need to be here because you know that our society is corrupt right now. And you're going to actively deny it. Deny its presence here. And right now I'm seeing, right now I can see like our faculty is scared. They don't want to be 00:26:00recorded, I mean which is fine. Everyone has that right, but if you're at a college like this being compliant will not let you be like this. We talk about this in Toshindo, you can't play to not lose, you have to play to win. We're not going full throttle right now. We're just, I mean, I can understand we're being a little safe until accreditation. I can give you that, you know but if this college was created for that mission, then we need to live through that mission. That's giving POC that's giving POC, the hall that they ask for, that's giving students time off, that's lessening our workload to something that's tolerable, that's actually having classes that are different, and interesting, and changing, that's doing education differently! And so far we've pretended to do education differently. It's been just the same. Every college campus feels like their students are overworked, every college campus feels like the administration doesn't listen to them, every college campus has race issues, and I'm asking our institution to be different. That's not too much.

Alyssa Navarette: I agree, I think that was very well said, thank you. Yellow Springs was once a place of great diversity as well as a safe haven for people of color. Greatly due to Antioch college do you think we can regain this once again?

Mari K Smith: I think that there's a, there's this lyric that I like a lot "there's a tension between how it is and how it should be." Ultimately like 00:27:00there there's a town issue obviously Yellow Springs was a safe haven. A great place for people of color to flourish and to have fun and to feel loved right and it all came back to Antioch because this was the epicenter of that. Then really, not to put pressure on any specific person, I don't mean that in a sarcastic way but it's all about the administration taking that leap of faith and saying that this can be different. We have the power to make it different, and that Antioch will only be able to fully be resurrected the way they want it to if they take that leap of faith and then Antioch can finally you know have its these clamps taken away from it and it can grow and it can be happy and Yellow Springs doesn't have to be a rich white tourist town anymore.

Alyssa Navarette: I agree, I think, I also think just like the power that the students have and like the drive that we have for this movement is really 00:28:00powerful and I think that in itself is very special and it's what creates the radicalness of Antioch. Do you have any final thoughts or like stuff that you wanted to say that we didn't get to touch base on?

Mari K Smith: If you're if in administration, if administration is afraid of the students I guess they should be, because the students are very powerful in their own way that can't be measured by their influence in a bureaucracy and they are here. Even if you've met some awful people they're all here for a reason and they're all very weird and they have a lot of personality and they have a lot of love and that will prevail in the end. That we will prevail? Yeah we will prevail! Alyssa: That was great thank you Mari.