Meli Osanya

[Mari K Smith]: Ok so the very first question. How do you feel about the statement race is not real?

[Meli Osanya]: I actually sort of agree with the statement. I feel like race is kind of something that is evolved and where you live and where you came from and where your ancestors came from but it's not really like a real thing. Like I was born in Kenya and so I spent a lot of time just not thinking about race because it was like it was mostly Black people so I was like yay and then I moved here 00:01:00and I was like "oh so I guess this is like an identity and a marker that people like constantly think about." and so It became very weird but I don't know race. I'm not sure race is very real but racism definitely is.

[Mari K Smith]: So if you don't mind I was wondering if that is something you could talk to me about right? So you grew up in Kenya? How, how old were you when you came to the states?

[Meli Osanya]: Eleven.

[Mari K Smith]: Eleven. So you kind of, I mean tell me if I'm putting words in your mouth but I'm guessing you kind of came here and then sort of became a black person.

[Meli Osanya]: Yeah

[Mari K Smith]: What was that like for you?

[Meli Osanya]: So I didn't really notice I was a Black person until I went to highschool and had my first racial encounter and was like "this is based on race." and not just like on anything else it's just so easy to pawn off onto like I'm female or I'm just not smart or my English isn't very good. There is a lot of things I could like toss it onto but there is this program I was trying to get into and there were all of these interviews and they hadn't shut the door 00:02:00all of the way behind me post my interview. So I was waiting in the waiting room with this other girl and there were these three old ladies and they were talking about the process and I was standing up to close the door and I was realizing what they were about to do and they were like "oh but she's Black do we really want her to represent the town of Ames?" Which is the town I'm from. And I was like "oh okay" So that was, that was really weird. Then after that I still think it took a long time before I really came to terms with the fact that it carried this much weight. Beyond like it is a thing and we moved to this neighborhood and we were the only black family there and our neighbors commented on it but there are like. There are overt things but it's not everyone because it's a generational thing and their old people but then there was coming to Antioch and it's like wow it's not always generational and it's more prevalent than I think I was willing to admit. So I took a long time though If I had raised here I think my parents would have been like "this is a thing." and they would have 00:03:00been more actively like racism and race is a major identity factor thing. Verses what I thought was really important was my tribe. Like I was like. That was what I thought was a really important identifier for a time and then I was like no.

[Mari K Smith]: Uhm so I have two questions, one on deck though, so don't worry about that one I'm not even going to ask it yet. Uhm but do you do you feel like you identify with Black American culture now that you're here or do you at all or? Is it something you acknowledge also as someone who has assimilated as someone who has lived the rest of their life here from eleven?

[Meli Osanya]: Uhm I think. It's really hard because I know. Like if I think back to my highschool experience there were the black kids and then there were the African kids. And the African kids are not quite the same as the black kids and we had different kinds of experiences and different expectations placed upon us. I think at Antioch it's a little different because I think a majority. I 00:04:00don't know. Like if I'm thinking of the Black people at Antioch the majority of us are African descended and so that was like really easy for me to connect with them in a way that isn't essay for me to connect with a lot of Black Americans up until this point. And so, I don't know if it's very, I think it's a culture I've taken on but I think there are still a lot of aspects of Black American culture that I'm kind of like "that's a questionable thing that you did there?" like really weird but like I've taken it on because it's understood that everyone else is going to look at me and be like "black and American" because I've also lost my accent. So it's like "this is your experience just from meeting me." and I'm like no it's not but yeah I don't know I guess I took it on verses like I've changed into it but I've accepted that it might be placed on me.

[Mari K Smith]: You just said you've lost your accent. So, did you grow up 00:05:00speaking English or did you learn it here?

[Meli Osanya]: I started learning it before we left Kenya because English is one of our national languages but we learn it in school but it's not a mandatory thing. So I've been like sort of low key pickin it up but like not really not in a practiced sort of way. Then we just started having grammar lessons and then I came to the States and it was like alright now you actually need to know English in a really proper sort of way. So I learned most of my English here but uhm yeah. Which is a time. But. Yeah I don't know I lost my accent really quickly. Like I'm sort of a chameleon my little brother still has a little bit of an accent but he was nine when he came here and I'm like low key pissed about it but I. I don't know. After like a year it was an American accent ya know.

[Mari K Smith]: That's really surprising. Most people you know. I mean my moms been in this country I mean given she had come here when she was 25 but she's been in this country longer then she was in her native country and she still has 00:06:00an accent. Do you feel like there was like a survival instinct to do that? What was the process? Did you really really not want to have an accent?

[Meli Osanya]: I really wanted to hold onto being Kenyan. Like this is like a thing that I really struggled with for a really long time and I think it kind of hindered my ability to see racism in general. Because I was just kind of like "I'm Kenyan and this like my heritage and who I am" and blah blah blah. And so it took a really long time of like denying this American aspect of me because if I realistically think about it I'm split in half now. And so it took a really long time of like denying this American aspect of me and so if I really think about It I'm very split in half now. Like my experiences are both in between and you really develop a lot more in your later years and you really become this person you're going to be and I spent that time here in the States. I feel like I tried really hard to hold onto this accent as a part of me but it went away so quickly. It was mostly to survive. I was like really scared about adapting and not fitting in and incredibly timid and really 00:07:00shy if my mother wasn't there I probably wasn't going to talk to anyone and it was very necessary and my brother was always very loud and really outgoing so he just didn't care. And I was the smart one so it was like you need to excel anyway and there was this added pressure that if I assimilate If people like me enough then I'll be fine. So I tried I did all of the things I changed all of my clothes when I got here and I took on my American name.

[Mari K Smith]: So what is your American name? Is it Meli?

[Meli Osanya]: Its Melissa

[Mari K Smith]: Melissa?

[Meli Osanya]: My old name is Amondi. That's my actual name.

[Mari K Smith]: Oh that's beautiful. Meli is really beautiful too.

[Meli Osanya]: Yeah I really like Meli. But yeah it was just sort of like I tried really hard to fit in and if I moved regionally I'd get a regional accent too. So like from Connecticut to Reno this east coast accent to this western 00:08:00accent to this Iowan accent. Iowans are like base level, they like don't have an accent.

[Mari K Smith]: Heartlands

[Meli Osanya]: Yeah but it was definitely something I noticed but It was definitely a need to adapt and survive in any situation type thing.

[Mari K Smith]: I think it was very interesting that now that your cultural experiences are split in half and now you went from your old name to your new name and now it's Meli. It was a good blend of that I thought it was really symbolic in that sort of way. Sorry I just wanted to say that. But yeah sorry going back to the question I just wanted to say that. It adds background too. Hearing that argument on campus for me from people that are white males, that makes me kind of upset but then I hear that argument from you and I'm like oh my gosh that makes perfect sense of course. So how do you feel about the concept of 00:09:00depending on who it comes from do you agree with it? Because when I hear it's like a denial of like you know, like your skin color or the way you look it's very ah like racism is here and your race is different. You know what I mean? So like what do you think of that perspective of it? Or do you say even then race isn't real in that way? I'm not trying to obscure your argument, I'm just curious.

[Meli Osanya]: Uhm I think. So I totally agree with you with the fact that when a non-person of color says it to me I feel a certain type of way because I feel like when they say it they also don't acknowledge racism. Like I feel like they say it which means racism is not real and that's also not a thing. How do I describe this? I don't feel that race is real because all and all were all just people. And that's like just calling one zebra and another zebra different 00:10:00because their strips are like low key sideways a little more than the other one. Like it's a thing that doesn't really matter. But since like if we start discriminating against it then racism is very real. I'm willing to say that racism is real. This is a roundabout way to say this. Let me try again.

[Mari K Smith]: That's ok.

[Meli Osanya]: Racism is real because we've put these discriminators between people who are darker than other people. So when you comment on the fact that they are blah blah blah because they're Black or because they're whatever then that's racism. And you're commenting on the skin color. Skin color is obviously race. But race kind of refers to this other being that were inherently different but we're just not were talking about the color and tone of our skin and so I don't know. I don't know how to describe it. I guess I wouldn't mind if someone 00:11:00were to say that race is not real and they actually understood the difference between race and racism.

[Mari K Smith]: That was good thanks. Uhm. Ok. Ok so we're gonna switch gears a little bit. Well. We kind of ordered the questions not pertaining to each other. But we're gonna go with the order anyway. So what are your feelings or thoughts about POC culture on Antioch's campus.

[Meli Osanya]: POC culture...Can you describe what you mean by that?

[Mari K Smith]: Uhm. When Alyssa and I wrote that question we were primarily referring to how it's like a counter or subculture. How we feel it affects us 00:12:00how we feel it affects our mainstream white culture if you will. Yeah do you think it is a positive thing or a negative thing?

[Meli Osanya]: I love POC culture. I think it took a long time to develop so from my observations like when I first got here there was the first three class which were 2016, 2017 and 2018 I think because they had such few numbers they weren't as connected and didn't have much of a culture amongst themselves but once we added numbers and 2019ers added numbers it was like a very evident one and I think its growing and I'm really excited about that change but I love POC culture here. I think it's louder than like our normal culture and border Antioch culture. I think it's more accepting. I feel like we are quicker to laugh about things and quicker to support angry endeavors which I think is a 00:13:00good combination. Sometimes in a social justice school it is really easy to feel like you're by yourself in a situation and it's like "I'm the only person that is angry about whatever is happening" and that can be really detrimental to moving on and being like "I'm going to change the world' but like in POC culture if you're like guys I'm so pissed about that thing everyone is like oh I gotchu you or like oh that sucks or like do you need to like dance it out. Which is like a really solid solution but yeah I think I see it evolving into something that is really positive and communal and something I haven't seen before.

[Mari K Smith]: Why do you think that POC culture. Is, how, I mean, just uhm. Objectively speaking we all have different backgrounds and cultures right most 00:14:00of us. There are Black and African Americans and Africans and Asian people and southwest Asian people and even though those cultures are all different what keeps that air of acceptance and support within the entire group itself as a unit.

[Meli Osanya]: Well for one thing I think it's just because we're outnumbered. Even if you're the only person from that country or that experience and there is only two or three of you. It's better to have someone who almost has something similar to latch onto then someone who has never experienced it at all and I think another thing that keeps us together is there is a certain amount of irritation that comes with day to day activities at Antioch. Like I think it's really easy to go into a classroom or a dining hall or just a space and think 00:15:00about the food that's being made or the conversations or the perspectives. And be like "hmm I've actually had an experience like this and know this is inherently wrong and unhelpful" but to go up to one of my white friends and be like "oh my god they tried to make Kenyan stew the other night and it's not Kenyan stew at all." Oh well that's unfortunate." But if I were to go to another person of color and they'd be like Hispanic I could go up to them and be like "Oh they tried to make Kenyan stew here and it was not Kenyan at all" and they'd be like "yeah they tried to make tacos here and it's real tacos!" It's not the same cultural thing that we're latching onto but it's the same experience and that same emotion that you can lean back on and it's easier to pull from it.

[Mari K Smith]:Of being misrepresented or being misunderstood? Or both?

[Meli Osanya]: Of being misunderstood probably, and being misrepresented. Both! 00:16:00Probably both, I think it's really unfortunately actually that POC culture stems from the fact that it's out of necessity and out of like a less positive thing. Like it stems from the fact that we don't have all of the support systems that we need and we don't have all of the correct representations or like it's easy to misunderstand a lot of people that are POC. Like it's so easy for me to sit at a table of black women and be like "hello" and start laughing at something and then people look over at us and they're like "what are they doing" out of suspicion. But if you were like to see a group of white people laugh really loudly in Birch it would be like "Whatever" I feel like, it would be so 00:17:00interesting if POC culture was more derived from the fact that we wanted to build more community and have more connections with one another instead of we wanted more people to understand that we had a terrible day.

[Mari K Smith]:So if you could, explain the POC day of disappearance day, day of disappearance, disappearance action. In your own words as well as why you feel it was impactful or maybe not impactful.

[Meli Osanya]: The day of disappearance was a day in which we showed the community what it was like to not have POC on campus. And it was an idea that was proposed I guess last quarter but it was done this quarter. I feel as though 00:18:00it was both impactful and not impactful. I feel it was impactful that it was brought to everyone's mind. I feel as though it was both impactful and not impactful. I feel it was really impactful in the fact that it was brought to everyone's mind how different the campus would be if they couldn't maintain a student of color. Which is a major issue because if you don't have a presence that's like heard or one that you feel like is supported then you leave. There is nothing to be like if I leave someone would care. And I think that is what the day of disappearance was like to me. Would this campus be the same if it didn't have all of us there? And although I heard a lot of interesting feedback where some people thought about and they noticed that was surprising to me that they noticed. I didn't think they would make the connection to why all of the people were missing on campus. It was very interesting to be around people to be 00:19:00like "Oh you guys were back.'' We were like gone and it was really obvious in class because like half of my class was really like empty and it was like oh no there are no students of color right now. And like we were trying to have this conversation and I was trying to ask this question and it was like "Oh do you know who would be helpful right now is someone who has lived this experience" and now they're not here. There was also this rhetoric where some people didn't notice at all and in those classes they never discussed anything about race or diversity or something that would make them think they need to be careful or tone police. This is the other thing the only reason some people noticed were they were about to say something, were about to tone police, were going to look over at the person while they spoke, and then realize they weren't there. It was the act of being like oh maybe I'm going to say something disrespectful and looking for someone that made them realize they weren't there.

[Mari K Smith]:Wait how did you know that?

[Meli Osanya]: Well I was talking to someone Wednesday so after the day of disappearance and they were like "yeah it was really weird we were having this discussion and it was really weird." It was an anthropology class so i don't know what they were talking about. But they were talking about something and they were just kind of like "I wanted to say something but I thought it might offend one of the people of color in my class and I was going to look over to say something and be like I don't mean to say something off hook or blah blah blah and I realized they weren't there and then I was like wait what? And then I looked around and realized the other two weren't there either." and I was just like "oh" and they were like "But I was trying to be inclusive and I was trying to make sure that everyone's voice was heard and they could go first" and I was like "This is why, why didn't you notice because you enjoy the people in your 00:21:00class, why didn't you notice because you wanted to say something that was maybe problematic."

[Mari K Smith]:Him interesting

[Meli Osanya]: So it was a very mixed bag of noticing for the wrong reasons, and because they were actually concerned or not noticing because they weren't in a space where they thought they would. Which there is just a lot of things. I'm not sure it was super impactful for the people outside of POC but I think it was impactful for the people inside POC.

[Mari K Smith]:Can you talk a little bit about what we did that day and what happened with CSKC?

[Meli Osanya]: Yeah so that day was a really good day to regather as a community I think it took between the transition between last quarter and this quarter and the fact that we have my class back on campus and they kind of knew what was 00:22:00happening and didn't know what was happening and then the staff and faculty weren't super involved in the discussions. Having that day to talk about our next steps, where we were feelings, where we have been, to talk about our feelings about POC housing, but also talking to faculty and staff and gettin that input was really important. It really brought at least to me a clear sense of community to ourselves. That was very much like were are all in this together it's not like we support you from afar it's like we are here to do the work and we encourage that.

[Mari K Smith]:Do you feel like the unity of that was felt because of the kind of negative rooted unity you talked about before? Of the negative rooted unity you had talked about before "Oh I'm having this awful day and you understand" or do you think it was a different sort of unity that day?

[Meli Osanya]: I think that day came from a really positive space and this is why I'm really excited because our community is being built off of instead of I understand your struggle and we can survive together it i snow being being built off of this place of empowerment and excelling and thriving here verses just trying to persevere and that was the first time I witnessed this in action where we can become inspired instead of just crawl our way through the dirt to get to the other side which is graduation.

[Mari K Smith]:Like emerging six feet under? I was really proud of that moment. A lot of other people said how they were really proud, especially of you because we were all very gracious we all were during the entire situation within our groups and the interactions between students POC faculty and administration. 00:24:00Like how you were so gracious and respectful even if we didn't have to be. Why do you think you chose that path instead of chose that other path? Of being? Cause you know you have every right to be angry and go out and have that effect on things and go out and tell tv stations about what's going on. What was the decision making process there if there was?

[Meli Osanya]: It was a really planned decision. It's really easy to look at our letter and be like how this is really thoughtful and that's because it was designed that way. We chose recommendations verses demands for a reason we chose to try to work with a collaboration and with the advice and dialoguing of administration verses complete protests all because Antioch is supposed to be 00:25:00this new social experience its this big social experiment. This new type of living bigger better modern way of living. I think it's kind of easy to look at this as a "you failed us and now there is no point in giving you a new chance." I think by modeling the fact that we can communicate with them in a way that allows for change to occur? I don't know if I believe that anymore. I think originally the point was that we didn't want to aggress it in a way that made them want to completely disassociate from the movement from the get go. We wanted to pull them in and be like Yes we can have this dialogue and yes we can move forward in a calm and compassionate way and it will be ok but now as time has gone forward I wonder if that is entirely the correct answer because now we 00:26:00have become rather lenient of the sway we started off so politely?

[Mari K Smith]:Do you think they were taking advantage of it?

[Meli Osanya]: I think they're taking advantage of it because it's really easy to associate patients with weakness in these kinds of situations or like patients with lack of interest or lack of will. Or compassion with like acceptance of the situation, I feel like us expanding patients and compassion with them was like Tom is about to start and we have high hopes for him. We were at this point where the university task force is moving forward and their plan is getting approved soon and we're at this crossroad where it's going to get better, but if it's a five year plan it's not enough. Which is really like we can work with your system as long as we understand we want to move forward. Now 00:27:00after having the opportunity and the window of "yes were going to model back to you the perfect way of dealing with an ask for a community in struggle" they've decided to do what most administrations do and talk about it, stall it out, not really get things done, offer support and commitment but stick behind closed doors and get defensive. I don't know I'm concerned that the graciousness that we've been so applauded for this movement might be at an end and a close. I was the biggest proponent of we need to be nice about this and have a dialogue and chat about it but I'm at the end of my patients. I've definitely come to the window or door that is closing. Every dialogue I've ever had since the beginning 00:28:00has been so roundabout and done through these layers of hidden gibberish and admin talk. I don't know it might just be more advantageous of us to just go around it.

[Mari K Smith]:I know that after the day of disappearance they had a community day of race dialogue how did that went?

[Meli Osanya]: I was really excited about that. I thought Mila's plan to break up all of the faculty, and staff and all of the POC and white students was a really good idea. From what I've heard the faculty and staff had a really good discussion and the white students may not have been perfect but it really opened 00:29:00doors and minds into something that was really advantageous of us in our movement. I feel as though the POC meeting of the present staff though with like the students and the staff might have been less successful as the other planned meetings. The other meetings everyone came out and threw as a dialogue and we were more engaged as a topic. I felt as though with our meeting we hadn't really gained as much. I felt as though the students of color really spoke a lot and gave a lot of information and feelings and concerns and laid a lot out for this present staff and in return we didn't get the same courtesy. We did not get the 00:30:00same "these are our concerns these are our feelings about it this is what I'd be interested in doing later on" it didn't serve as a dialogue. It was more of a report out with so many questions it was sort of. I don't know unexciting? It's hard to know if you changed their minds if they didn't voice their stance to begin with. I don't know I'm not sure if it was successful for the students of color but it was for all of the other groups.

[Mari K Smith]:Interesting. Ok so I still have a lot more I want to ask you about that but we have to move on. Ok so yeah, through the day of disappearance it was about our POC hall issue and how we weren't allowed one. One primary 00:31:00argument against the POC hall is the term self segregation so how do you feel about that? And actually first of all what do you think about the word segregation.

[Meli Osanya]: Segregation is very, it's a strong word. It means so much to do with separation and kind of oppression. I'm not sure it really articulates what we're trying to do. I put self segregation in the same realm as self oppression it's something you can't do. Like it's not possible so like oppressed or marginalized groups can't segregate themselves because segregation was inherently done by the oppressors and we would never oppress ourselves. This movement this POC housing was trying to empower us and to build community and to have sanctuary and by separating from the greater community were only trying to 00:32:00have more community for ourselves. Once we do that we can actually get more involved in the greater community so its actually very peculiar to me that the biggest concern of the opposition would be self segregation?

[Mari K Smith]:I also think it's kind of patronizing in a way. Because like we've gone through all of this, all of these things have happened and so now we've thought a lot about what we want and this is what we want and then everyone is like oh no you're doing something bad to yourself. Like that's patronizing and it's belittling a little bit. Sorry I just wanted to add that continue.

[Meli Osanya]: Yeah no I totally agree. And self segregation has this whole idea that by putting us all together we're not going to interact with any other student that is not POC ever again which is kind of ridiculous. Because as long as you leave the hallway to do anything such as food, or friends, or social events, anything at all, you're going to interact with white students we are the 00:33:00minority on campus. It's not as if separating ourselves giving us this little space, we're not going to actually segregate. Which is I don't know it's just a lot. That's I feel, one of the best things about Antioch and how they do this POC housing in my opinion was that it was so easy for them to see a need for POC students to go around and educate white students and talk to them, by taking the concern of the white students and that they wont be able to interact with non-white students and they wont be able to learn how to interact people with different backgrounds, we have to interact and integrate with all of them and I feel as though they're taking that concern as higher priority then the fact that 00:34:00POC students can't interact with other POC students on a regular basis after like a whole day. I've had a whole entire day without interacting with another student of color. A whole entire day, it's peculiar to me but they are the majority. So if the majority's needs of being educated is higher than the students of color's needs of not educating people and just being a student then so be it let us self segregate.

[Mari K Smith]:Oh shit, do you think or do you feel a POC hall is necessary on a small liberal arts campus like Antioch. Why or why not?

[Meli Osanya]: Hell yeah I think it's necessary. I think it's necessary because Antioch is so small and progressive. I'm gonna say that because as a progressive 00:35:00school we have a lot of people who I think fear stepping on toes so every time they tip toe over issues like racism and every time we bring up race in a normal context it suddenly becomes this taboo thing we can't discuss ever and the white people in the room think of all these thoughts they won't bring up ever but they have all of these racist thoughts in their brains. And so in a community this small in which you have this kind of culture with this underlying fuming anger, white guilt, whatever you want to call it. It would be so much safer for everyone, if they had a chance to process it and POC students had a chance to process as well it outside of that. So we have like a future situation for instance if we were to get the POC hall I think it'd be much more likely for people to go out to the dining hall and there is an issue somewhere and people 00:36:00are rallying against it and people are coming up and being like oh my god did you hear about this racist thing that happened? Because everyone goes up to any POC and automatically asks about any racist thing that happens on the news. So when this inevitably happens because were at Antioch and were so concerned about anything that didn't happen on our campus that is racist come up to us and be like "oh my god did you hear about this thing" because we had all of this time in our POC hall to talk about it and relax and be like oh this is great and we can be like "Oh yeah we did, were going to do this thing do you want to join?" and they'll be like "yeah" and they're not dominating the space verses like right now with the John Crawford case. Which I think is the most obvious thing that happened when that came around a bunch of POC were talking about it but it was hard to come together individual and the whole thing that happened around it kept being super white lead and they kept asking students of color for like 00:37:00opinions but it felt like such a separated thing for us to come together and process our feelings about it because there is another person in our community the greater POC community of the world being targeted and it was so easy for people to rally around this and be like "were going to do this thing for you" and there was this weird dichotomy of how is it possible for you to all get together and organize so quickly and be this weird group to fight racism but not be able to have a space for everyone else who is not a part of this white group. When dealing with the fact that white people did this thing to a black person to process it and heal together, it was impossible to build that space and it took months it took literally months to get together for us to cry this out. Verses 00:38:00if we lived together it would have been as easy as just go next door and be like "Oh my god lets cry together and go out." even with like the Mizzou thing that happened in fall? That was really easy to put together because the planners all lived in the women of color case unit. And then they invited the rest of the community to do the thing. It's so easy to see the correlation if we have the time and the space to get together and heal and process and we can act and can continue being this progressive small liberal arts school and really build community verses we can't get together to build anything so were still crying 00:39:00about it and this other community that doesn't fully understand what they really need to do to even process what they need to do to make this easy for everyone involved verses this not this white guilt but there is a lot of personal things into it . how they can go and invite us out but not do anything to heal us or empower us or do anything post that. ITs really weird to be on the sidelines of this thing that you should be on the front lines of. Because this is our community's issue.

[Mari K Smith]:I really like that, thanks for the testimony about Mizzou because I didn't know that and I was really impressed because Mizzou had just happened and people were like "hey guys were walking out of global seminar" and I was like "when was this talked about?" and it was yeah it was pretty amazing. Uhm we kind of already talked about how POC groups affects you didn't we? Well let's just talk about it a little more in depth. I personally, I don't know, maybe I 00:40:00have a newer perspective. I am a 2019er and grew up in a white community and then coming here to POC group I was really skeptical at first and it was really sad because of like things that I had heard right? I came and I felt like I was also educated because I'm white but I was being healed in this way because of the appreciation that happens in POC group? Can you talk about how like I don't know I'm guessing you feel maybe a similar way in how like your culture? Actually yeah do you feel like your culture is valued in POC group?

[Meli Osanya]: Yeah yeah I do! So like I really enjoyed it when I first got here I love where I am recently from. Where i went to high school it was very 00:41:00predominately white, like five percent black.

[Mari K Smith]:Oh

[Meli Osanya]: Yeah there was like ten of us? Like ten black people in a school of like twelve thousand, twelve hundred? Not thousand. I felt really weird coming into that space because there wasn't a lot of black people and I hadn't really been a part of that subculture before since like Kenya. I was really questioning how accepting they would be. Especially since I was not woke back then, not at all. After being there and being in the group for the past years I really feel like I've grown as a person and grown to know what POC means and what racism and race really mean. I know that I hadn't fully come to terms with 00:42:00it before I came here. But also I'm really proud of my Kenyan identity again and sharing it at a space at Antioch that isn't just educating a person or being like oh blah blah blah blah. But like ya know every time you have POC dinners you want to bring this thing but i don't know how to cook and my mom is just like "oh just toss this thing in there" like mom I'm not you that's not how I cook things but every time i go to one of those dinners and I'm like guys I want to do this thing and they're all like yeah of course we're gonna love whatever your Kenyan thing is you make and sure we're gonna have the grits that Ishan wants and this Guac that everyone wants and this is good and were going to put it all together but now your not confined into this like "and now you're a POC" you're a part of this POC community but you're still from the south and whatever you want to the and that is what makes us stronger.

[Mari K Smith]:So how do you feel that aspect of culture and acceptance will be used and how it will play out within a POC hall?

[Meli Osanya]: I love thinking about the POC hall. It brings me so much joy. I feel that having the hall will encourage for more culture to happen on campus. So like if you were to walk into my room I have several arts I brought from Kenyan and Uganda. Which I didn't have when I first got here. I got all of this stuff from like target and I was like blah blah blah and I never wanted to have 00:44:00my hair out from braids or even like i felt really uncomfortable about my braids from the get go because I don't need all of the continual questions and all of the stuff that comes from being in a predominantly white space. That if they don't understand they haven't experienced it. And Now though because you've been around me now. Now I don't care and I change my hair in the middle of the quarter and someone is like "oh how did your hair grow at night? That's not how hair works?" and I'm a lot more willing to do that. I have this massive elephant photo in my room and I have my tribal masks and I have so much more confident about sharing my culture because POC group has become so much stronger and I feel so much more of a connection with the women on campus. They're not my 00:45:00closest friend group they're not like my clique here, but I have that community to rely on whenever I want it and that's really important and It's so easy to get distracted by uhm "by having POC housing you're not going to have any white friends" like even now just because I love POC housing and want to live in that hall does not mean that my closest friends here are not white. This is like a true fact of life but yeah I don't know I think it's going to really help people feel like locked down on who they are because it doesn't take everyone accepting what's happening with you and it doesn't take everyone being super knowledgeable about what's happening right now but it takes like one other person being like 00:46:00"oh my god Meli your hair is total for being right now." like it's so like, just being able to have that conversation and be super crazy about it? It's like yes. Someone else understands and someone else is really willing to take that space with me and make me feel at home about it.

[Mari K Smith]:So the very last question were almost done. It's been like an hour and I told you it would take like 10 minutes. Uhm yellow springs was once a place of great diversity as well as a safe haven of people of color greatly due to Antioch. Do you think we can regain that presence once again. You can talk about yellow springs or Antioch as an institution whatever angle you want to jab at it.

[Meli Osanya]: At the direction we're moving right now. I don't think we'll regain it again. Yellow springs has really lost a lot of people because of its gentrification again. It's becoming more pricey and more old and white. Here at 00:47:00Antioch it's becoming less diverse. I think they're trying really hard to bring in more students of color and they're trying really hard for more first generation students and the advertising this perception of diversity and manifestation there is no support system here when they leave and if you're not willing to build a POC housing thing and a POC hall which is one support system POC students are currently asking for what's to say that you are definitely going to support students in there other endeavors. What's to say that they will continue to stay here and tell the newbies that come in that "yeah this is a worthwhile place to stay here." because I stayed mostly because upperclassmen 00:48:00told me there are some race problems but you can get through it. But last quarter when one of the 2019ers were like "I'm thinking about leaving" I was like "oh no" and tried all of these things to try and make them stay but I couldn't really find definitive things. Like either you're committed and you have something you're attached to or, but like, I can't think of anything that would make someone who isn't already attached here and hadn't made friends here stay. There is nothing supportive about the system we live in here unless you make it your own and like make it yourself and not everyone can do that and so you have to accommodate to those people and if you can't then they leave. That was that was the experience. I don't think that at the rate we're going at if we're able to lose a third of the students that came in in your year in two 00:49:00quarters then who is to say we're not going to lose every member of the class after that? And then it is just going to fail.

[Mari K Smith]:That was real. Uhm. Do I have anything to add to that? I think that yeah I agree with you that a obviously people come here knowing it's a choose your own adventure type of deal but its not too much to ask for a really basic support system not just for people of color but for students in general. Yeah and there is definitely like a yeah Perry you're running with him of course. I really enjoyed his comment on the panel for Comcil about how there is an Antioch movement and an Antioch institution and how the movement would bring people of color and would give support here and would have them come and want to stay so there's a lot different tensions going on here. I think that there are 00:50:00faculty and administration are going to have to do a lot of crazy radical things for it to survive. And I don't mean it's going to close down but just like for its mission to stay alive you know. It could easily I agree with you it's just going to become this huge faade of social justice and education and manifest into that. But yeah do you have any last comments or ideas that i didn't hit on this conversation yet?

[Meli Osanya]: I don't know I feel like the only real thing about this situation that I've been tackling with this last week is I wonder when the tone shifted. I 00:51:00feel like we've hit phase two of this movement where like phase one was this energetic were willing to do whatever it takes to be supportive to make you happy and make Antioch whatever it needs to be. The Antioch that you expected us to be, and then it sort of died away and then we hit phase two which became more defensive and more unwilling to be honest in their efforts and I wonder why it's so difficult for the administration to talk about this in a pointed way. To be able to sit down and not say "this is an issue of diversity and blah blah blah, or this is an issue etc" and not buzz words but just say "this is an issue on race and we're going to deal with it" and I guess I'm not sure in my comment 00:52:00about that is. I'd be curious to see how phase two goes over phase one.

[Mari K Smith]:Well tune in next week for Meli and Mari talk about race! Oh speaking of which I forgot to have you say your name and year so could you do that real quick before we go?

[Meli Osanya]: My name is Meli Osanya and I'm a second year class of 2018.