Fatima_Eeshal_Reimaging Linguistic Diversity of Pakistani Languages

Interview with Eshal- Transcription

Assalam-o-Alaikum. Today we have Eshal with us to talk about Urdu. Eshal is currently studying in SC College and is in her 7th semester of her Bachelor's degree. She has a major in English Literature. Eshal, if you don't mind, can we start the interview?

3

Yes.

1

So, Eshal, let's start with your childhood. Where were you raised and where did you get your education? My birth is in Kotaddu, Punjab and my birthplace is in Laiyyah, which is near Multan. It's a small district. I have my education from there, I have my matriculation from DPS Laiyyah and my SSC from Superior Group of Colleges.

When you were growing up, did you ever feel the pressure to speak in any language other than Urdu?

The language that we all feel the pressure to speak in other than Urdu is English. And almost everyone knows this. When I was young, we used to get fines in our school if we spoke in Urdu or any other language. In Playa, people mostly speak Saraiki. So speaking in Saraiki and Urdu was a problem for the kids, and there, speaking in English was a bigger problem. So, it was a problem there, and in college as well. And in university, in our classes, it's important that you speak. If you're speaking, you have to be quiet. Otherwise, what do you call it, teachers find it difficult to speak Urdu or any other language. So, there is a lot of pressure on everyone. There is a lot of pressure on the student body. Absolutely. English is the biggest. Yes.

How many languages can you speak?

Other than Urdu, I can speak English, a little bit of Seraiki, a little bit of Haryanvi, because my family is from India. So I speak a little bit of Haryanvi. That is a new language.

How was your journey in FC College?

My journey in FC College was very good. There are a lot of people here who have a connection with the mosque, whether it is in terms of religion, or in terms of the area, or in terms of language. So you get to learn a lot. The teachers here are very good. You get to learn a lot from them. There is maam Arfa Syedah, Sir Irtaza Shifat. Teachers like these, personalities like these are present in our university. It is a big deal, so you get to learn a lot from them. What do you like the most about Urdu? It's a very polite language. If you speak poor Urdu, you get a sense of politeness and politeness. And that's what I like the most about Urdu.

3

Right.

1

What's your favorite poem or poem?

I don't like poems and poetry that much, but I like Tehzeeb Hafi, Faiz Ahmed Faiz, I like the verses of Faiz Ahmed Faiz. So, I would say that poetry is his poetry, or the small verse of his poetry is that, I have a lot of love for my husband. If you have heard of him, you will know. There are other sorrows in the world other than love. I like this poem a lot. There are other comforts in life. Other than the comfort of the world. Absolutely. Do you think that the Urdu language

3

has played an important role

1

in shaping or shaping your personality?

Very much. I have told you that my family is based in Urdu. So, because of him, his personality has a certain element of Urdu. He has a tolerance and a sense of respect. We have that in us too. Because we have been speaking Urdu our whole lives. I think that if there is a little bit of tolerance, it is because of speaking Urdu. The same politeness that you were talking about. Yes, yes, the same politeness.

Do you think that Urdu has a place in our society?

No, it doesn't. Because we don't give it that importance. Because as soon as you are born, it is put in the minds of the children of Pakistan that if you speak a foreign language, then that is not acceptable. And no one has ever tried to give that status to Urdu. If we talk about our Jamia, then you will find a lot of people including me who speak English. You won't find people who speak Urdu. I know only one girl in the university who is studying Urdu literature. So, no, I don't value this at all. Urdu is not valued by anyone. This is a problem of our society. I also think that after studying Urdu 101, no one looks back. No one looks back. Even in our university, the students don't know how to write Urdu properly. When I was studying Urdu 101, the students came to me and asked me how to write a very basic problem. One boy couldn't write 5 letters. So he asked me how to write. He said, I'll tell you how to write. This was a problem in our class. The kids couldn't write in Urdu. They would type in English and translate it into Urdu. These were the submissions for the assignment. Otherwise, they would say, no one can write in Urdu. Even with numbers, I have an issue. I can't speak after 25-30 Yes, it's the same 30, 31, no 30, 32, 33, 34, 35 It's the same Although I think it's not a matter of pride No, it's not And today's parents proudly say Our child doesn't speak Urdu, he speaks English So And it's going to happen slowly We have given ourselves to English We have given a control We have given our back door We gave him control and he slowly started to speak English. Let's come to a light question.

What was your favorite food to eat as a child? What did you wait for to be cooked? If you want, you can share your recipe with us.

I don't eat mutton, I like desi food. I love mutton, goat meat. We used to make namkeen gosht. I like that a lot. I always share my recipe with you if I know how to cook. I have no connection with the kitchen. My mother cooks. So if you want, I can ask my mother and tell you. I will definitely ask her after this interview. Is there a custom in your area or your home that you think people should know about your area? The best thing about our area is the importance of education. The literacy rate of Laiyyah is almost 100%. And there is no discrimination in the education of girls and boys. The girls who are going to school are going to school and the boys are going to school. And it's not like the boys will go out to study, the girls won't go. I know there are a lot of girls with me, and all the girls I know have gone out to study. There is no girl who has studied in Laiyyah. Although there are universities in Laiyyah, but they try to give the best education, whether it's the girls or the boys. and I want it to be the same everywhere. When we come to Lahore and hear the stories of other ethnicities, they say that they have come here but their sister will not come. So it is very surprising to us that why she will not come. Because we have been taught since childhood that education is equally important, whether it is boys or girls. The importance of education is the same for everyone. I did not know about this and it feels good to hear this. Because the situation in our country, the gender-based issues that are going on, this is amazing to know. Let's come to the next question. We just talked to someone who said that we give a lot of importance to English so keeping all this in mind, what do you think? Any suggestions that we can preserve the Urdu language and culture? For this we have to take Urdu to a higher level If we have cricketers in our country and if they don't know English in Urdu then we will make fun of them. So first of all, acceptance is very important. If someone is speaking Urdu everywhere, it's a good thing, not a bad thing. It doesn't mean that if they don't know English, it's not a bad thing. Go and promote. In China, wherever we go, they speak Chinese, and translators keep translating. I really like this. If this is the way, wherever there are meetings and conferences, if the Pakistani people speak Urdu, so that people know that Urdu is also a thing, people don't know about Urdu except for songs. Except for the songs like Pasoori, people don't know about Urdu. So I want that when Urdu is represented on a large scale, then people will know about it, then it will be accepted otherwise it won't be I think people get impressed by the fact that they have used their own language but when it comes to applying it, we don't do it When you talked about China, I thought about how famous South Korean dance is They don't have their own language on Netflix, they do have subtitles but their language is their own and people see it and their ratings are also high So I think you have talked a lot about accepting and owning your language. And when you speak Urdu or when you hear someone speak it in a correct way, Urdu is a very complicated language. But the more complicated it is, the better it is. It fascinates others. We don't understand this. Urdu, and pure Urdu, which we call pure Urdu, is not understood by many people. Even I don't understand it. When I was talking to my father, I couldn't understand half of what he was saying. I tell my father to translate it into English, and he understands it in English. But when we hear him speak pure Urdu, it is fascinating to us how he is speaking. I have heard more of ma’am Arfa Syeda's is community and they try to teach them the correct Urdu I have a Pathan in my circle, he speaks Pashto When Pashto is translated into Urdu, a lot of things go up and down So I explain to them that when you talk to someone with respect, these words are used and when you want to talk to someone casually, you use these words So this way I stay connected to my language and I also influence them a little bit that you should know about this. So this is the way to stay connected to your language. I am very connected because I told you that I am a native speaker. But I try to speak in Urdu in my class. And I don't feel any shame in this that if I don't speak English, what's the problem? It's not like I can't speak. I don't want to speak. I can express my thoughts in Urdu, but I can't do the same in English. Absolutely. So, this is a very important thing for me. So, I try to speak in Urdu. And, in a way, this is my identity. I speak Urdu. It's connected to me. Acceptance, owning your own language, is the first step to sell your language to someone Like you said, you correct the mistakes of Urdu I have seen that people consider it a shame in their circle If there is a mistake of English, they will point it out and make fun of it They will laugh at it

2

They let it go in Urdu

1

Urdu is cute if you speak it wrong Exactly, it is in fashion If you speak English, that is an insult. Although, the other scenario is a place of shame for us. Even now, when we are talking, I don't feel like I have used English without speaking it. So, it is our own fault and the fault of our system. How do you express your emotions in Urdu? For example, when you are angry, what do you say? When you are happy? What do you say when you are sad?

I express my emotions in Urdu. I have a habit of writing. I'm not that short tempered. I get quiet when I am angry, I am like that when I am sad I write in Urdu, I write a diary, I write my thoughts in Urdu When I am happy, I sing and dance, I am very happy I try to write in English but I can't write it well. I can't express my feelings well. So I enjoy writing in Urdu. I enjoy writing in Baha'u'l-Sih' I have a diary in Urdu. So, it is the right thing to own and accept your language and to spread it to others. I think this is the first step.

Now, the last question. We have reached the end of our interview. Tell us about your favourite song or ghazal.

It is the one I sang earlier. It's a Ghazal by Ali Sethi, Khwaja Ahmad Faiz. I like it a lot. And all the singers in Pakistan are good. Ali Sethi is my favourite person. He sings very well. And I am very fond of music. I also like to sing I like this Ghazal and this song I listen to this the most When I have to get ready for university, I listen to this song in the background I like Ali Sethi a lot I listen to all of his songs and the qavali's in Urdu and all that music whether it is music or drama if you watch my videos the Indians in it they have made a video when they watch Pakistani dramas how does Urdu influence them some people have made videos how does Urdu come out and they take it to the same level that no matter how much you misbehave no matter how much you talk in anger, you can say something respectfully so representation is very important and acceptance is also very important I have to say this about Urdu that Urdu is a very powerful language if it is understood and spoken in a proper way there is no pure Urdu, some English has been mixed in Urdu some other languages have been mixed in Urdu and because of that, Urdu has become a meat and it's not pure, it's all mixed up and this is what Urdu is so these are my thoughts and if you have anything to ask, you can ask no, no, my own thoughts are exactly like yours that there is a lack of representation we don't speak it, we don't own it we don't correct its mistakes if someone else is making. If we don't speak up for ourselves, we can't say that we should be the ones. We are students, we are youth, we should take the steps. And it's not like our youth are not interested. FUS is a society, I was the vice president of the society. They would ask me what is my interest in. I would say FUS. But when Mushaira happened, the number of children in Mushaira was very high. So the children are very interested in poetry and poetry. They feel a connection in emotions and poetry. They don't get that from anywhere else. You will get a rush in the city, but no one is ready to join the Urdu society. So this is a mental distortion of our youth, they don't understand what to say. Exactly. What to do with it. They want something to happen, but they don't want to do anything. Urdu should reach the sky and everything will be fine. So, that's the situation. I think that wherever you apply for a job, the first thing that is asked is whether you know how to speak fluent English. I think as a whole, it's the fault of the whole system. We can't put the responsibility of this on the students or on a generation. It's not a fault because English is our official language and we need it If you think about it, the most know-how in the world is English That's why people try to speak English when they go abroad So you should speak English in interviews If you are in a hurry, your English gets low low We have to do something about it. We don't do anything. And since childhood, learning English, speaking English, even after that we have to give IELTS and PTE to go abroad. Obviously, we are not natives, so we should have an idea that first it is Urdu, then English can be learned. The big thing is that we do not put the importance of English aside. But forgetting your own language is a kind of sin, that you put your thing aside and promote something else it's importance is in its place, its importance is in its place and the importance of your language is in its place it's very important for us to understand this and if we understand it on time, it will be better because the amount of takeover that English is doing on us it won't take much time to get out of control see, while speaking we are getting out of it I think we are half way through the sentence in English but it's okay. It's not our fault. There are a few, but it was nice talking to you. Thank you so much for spending an hour with me. I'm very thankful. Thank you so much. You're welcome. Whenever you need me.

Dismiss

Interview with Eshal- Transcription

Assalam-o-Alaikum. Today we have Eshal with us to talk about Urdu. Eshal is currently studying in SC College and is in her 7th semester of her Bachelor's degree. She has a major in English Literature. Eshal, if you don't mind, can we start the interview?

3

Yes.

1

So, Eshal, let's start with your childhood. Where were you raised and where did you get your education? My birth is in Kotaddu, Punjab and my birthplace is in Laiyyah, which is near Multan. It's a small district. I have my education from there, I have my matriculation from DPS Laiyyah and my SSC from Superior Group of Colleges.

When you were growing up, did you ever feel the pressure to speak in any language other than Urdu?

The language that we all feel the pressure to speak in other than Urdu is English. And almost everyone knows this. When I was young, we used to get fines in our school if we spoke in Urdu or any other language. In Playa, people mostly speak Saraiki. So speaking in Saraiki and Urdu was a problem for the kids, and there, speaking in English was a bigger problem. So, it was a problem there, and in college as well. And in university, in our classes, it's important that you speak. If you're speaking, you have to be quiet. Otherwise, what do you call it, teachers find it difficult to speak Urdu or any other language. So, there is a lot of pressure on everyone. There is a lot of pressure on the student body. Absolutely. English is the biggest. Yes.

How many languages can you speak?

Other than Urdu, I can speak English, a little bit of Seraiki, a little bit of Haryanvi, because my family is from India. So I speak a little bit of Haryanvi. That is a new language.

How was your journey in FC College?

My journey in FC College was very good. There are a lot of people here who have a connection with the mosque, whether it is in terms of religion, or in terms of the area, or in terms of language. So you get to learn a lot. The teachers here are very good. You get to learn a lot from them. There is maam Arfa Syedah, Sir Irtaza Shifat. Teachers like these, personalities like these are present in our university. It is a big deal, so you get to learn a lot from them. What do you like the most about Urdu? It's a very polite language. If you speak poor Urdu, you get a sense of politeness and politeness. And that's what I like the most about Urdu.

3

Right.

1

What's your favorite poem or poem?

I don't like poems and poetry that much, but I like Tehzeeb Hafi, Faiz Ahmed Faiz, I like the verses of Faiz Ahmed Faiz. So, I would say that poetry is his poetry, or the small verse of his poetry is that, I have a lot of love for my husband. If you have heard of him, you will know. There are other sorrows in the world other than love. I like this poem a lot. There are other comforts in life. Other than the comfort of the world. Absolutely. Do you think that the Urdu language

3

has played an important role

1

in shaping or shaping your personality?

Very much. I have told you that my family is based in Urdu. So, because of him, his personality has a certain element of Urdu. He has a tolerance and a sense of respect. We have that in us too. Because we have been speaking Urdu our whole lives. I think that if there is a little bit of tolerance, it is because of speaking Urdu. The same politeness that you were talking about. Yes, yes, the same politeness.

Do you think that Urdu has a place in our society?

No, it doesn't. Because we don't give it that importance. Because as soon as you are born, it is put in the minds of the children of Pakistan that if you speak a foreign language, then that is not acceptable. And no one has ever tried to give that status to Urdu. If we talk about our Jamia, then you will find a lot of people including me who speak English. You won't find people who speak Urdu. I know only one girl in the university who is studying Urdu literature. So, no, I don't value this at all. Urdu is not valued by anyone. This is a problem of our society. I also think that after studying Urdu 101, no one looks back. No one looks back. Even in our university, the students don't know how to write Urdu properly. When I was studying Urdu 101, the students came to me and asked me how to write a very basic problem. One boy couldn't write 5 letters. So he asked me how to write. He said, I'll tell you how to write. This was a problem in our class. The kids couldn't write in Urdu. They would type in English and translate it into Urdu. These were the submissions for the assignment. Otherwise, they would say, no one can write in Urdu. Even with numbers, I have an issue. I can't speak after 25-30 Yes, it's the same 30, 31, no 30, 32, 33, 34, 35 It's the same Although I think it's not a matter of pride No, it's not And today's parents proudly say Our child doesn't speak Urdu, he speaks English So And it's going to happen slowly We have given ourselves to English We have given a control We have given our back door We gave him control and he slowly started to speak English. Let's come to a light question.

What was your favorite food to eat as a child? What did you wait for to be cooked? If you want, you can share your recipe with us.

I don't eat mutton, I like desi food. I love mutton, goat meat. We used to make namkeen gosht. I like that a lot. I always share my recipe with you if I know how to cook. I have no connection with the kitchen. My mother cooks. So if you want, I can ask my mother and tell you. I will definitely ask her after this interview. Is there a custom in your area or your home that you think people should know about your area? The best thing about our area is the importance of education. The literacy rate of Laiyyah is almost 100%. And there is no discrimination in the education of girls and boys. The girls who are going to school are going to school and the boys are going to school. And it's not like the boys will go out to study, the girls won't go. I know there are a lot of girls with me, and all the girls I know have gone out to study. There is no girl who has studied in Laiyyah. Although there are universities in Laiyyah, but they try to give the best education, whether it's the girls or the boys. and I want it to be the same everywhere. When we come to Lahore and hear the stories of other ethnicities, they say that they have come here but their sister will not come. So it is very surprising to us that why she will not come. Because we have been taught since childhood that education is equally important, whether it is boys or girls. The importance of education is the same for everyone. I did not know about this and it feels good to hear this. Because the situation in our country, the gender-based issues that are going on, this is amazing to know. Let's come to the next question. We just talked to someone who said that we give a lot of importance to English so keeping all this in mind, what do you think? Any suggestions that we can preserve the Urdu language and culture? For this we have to take Urdu to a higher level If we have cricketers in our country and if they don't know English in Urdu then we will make fun of them. So first of all, acceptance is very important. If someone is speaking Urdu everywhere, it's a good thing, not a bad thing. It doesn't mean that if they don't know English, it's not a bad thing. Go and promote. In China, wherever we go, they speak Chinese, and translators keep translating. I really like this. If this is the way, wherever there are meetings and conferences, if the Pakistani people speak Urdu, so that people know that Urdu is also a thing, people don't know about Urdu except for songs. Except for the songs like Pasoori, people don't know about Urdu. So I want that when Urdu is represented on a large scale, then people will know about it, then it will be accepted otherwise it won't be I think people get impressed by the fact that they have used their own language but when it comes to applying it, we don't do it When you talked about China, I thought about how famous South Korean dance is They don't have their own language on Netflix, they do have subtitles but their language is their own and people see it and their ratings are also high So I think you have talked a lot about accepting and owning your language. And when you speak Urdu or when you hear someone speak it in a correct way, Urdu is a very complicated language. But the more complicated it is, the better it is. It fascinates others. We don't understand this. Urdu, and pure Urdu, which we call pure Urdu, is not understood by many people. Even I don't understand it. When I was talking to my father, I couldn't understand half of what he was saying. I tell my father to translate it into English, and he understands it in English. But when we hear him speak pure Urdu, it is fascinating to us how he is speaking. I have heard more of ma’am Arfa Syeda's is community and they try to teach them the correct Urdu I have a Pathan in my circle, he speaks Pashto When Pashto is translated into Urdu, a lot of things go up and down So I explain to them that when you talk to someone with respect, these words are used and when you want to talk to someone casually, you use these words So this way I stay connected to my language and I also influence them a little bit that you should know about this. So this is the way to stay connected to your language. I am very connected because I told you that I am a native speaker. But I try to speak in Urdu in my class. And I don't feel any shame in this that if I don't speak English, what's the problem? It's not like I can't speak. I don't want to speak. I can express my thoughts in Urdu, but I can't do the same in English. Absolutely. So, this is a very important thing for me. So, I try to speak in Urdu. And, in a way, this is my identity. I speak Urdu. It's connected to me. Acceptance, owning your own language, is the first step to sell your language to someone Like you said, you correct the mistakes of Urdu I have seen that people consider it a shame in their circle If there is a mistake of English, they will point it out and make fun of it They will laugh at it

2

They let it go in Urdu

1

Urdu is cute if you speak it wrong Exactly, it is in fashion If you speak English, that is an insult. Although, the other scenario is a place of shame for us. Even now, when we are talking, I don't feel like I have used English without speaking it. So, it is our own fault and the fault of our system. How do you express your emotions in Urdu? For example, when you are angry, what do you say? When you are happy? What do you say when you are sad?

I express my emotions in Urdu. I have a habit of writing. I'm not that short tempered. I get quiet when I am angry, I am like that when I am sad I write in Urdu, I write a diary, I write my thoughts in Urdu When I am happy, I sing and dance, I am very happy I try to write in English but I can't write it well. I can't express my feelings well. So I enjoy writing in Urdu. I enjoy writing in Baha'u'l-Sih' I have a diary in Urdu. So, it is the right thing to own and accept your language and to spread it to others. I think this is the first step.

Now, the last question. We have reached the end of our interview. Tell us about your favourite song or ghazal.

It is the one I sang earlier. It's a Ghazal by Ali Sethi, Khwaja Ahmad Faiz. I like it a lot. And all the singers in Pakistan are good. Ali Sethi is my favourite person. He sings very well. And I am very fond of music. I also like to sing I like this Ghazal and this song I listen to this the most When I have to get ready for university, I listen to this song in the background I like Ali Sethi a lot I listen to all of his songs and the qavali's in Urdu and all that music whether it is music or drama if you watch my videos the Indians in it they have made a video when they watch Pakistani dramas how does Urdu influence them some people have made videos how does Urdu come out and they take it to the same level that no matter how much you misbehave no matter how much you talk in anger, you can say something respectfully so representation is very important and acceptance is also very important I have to say this about Urdu that Urdu is a very powerful language if it is understood and spoken in a proper way there is no pure Urdu, some English has been mixed in Urdu some other languages have been mixed in Urdu and because of that, Urdu has become a meat and it's not pure, it's all mixed up and this is what Urdu is so these are my thoughts and if you have anything to ask, you can ask no, no, my own thoughts are exactly like yours that there is a lack of representation we don't speak it, we don't own it we don't correct its mistakes if someone else is making. If we don't speak up for ourselves, we can't say that we should be the ones. We are students, we are youth, we should take the steps. And it's not like our youth are not interested. FUS is a society, I was the vice president of the society. They would ask me what is my interest in. I would say FUS. But when Mushaira happened, the number of children in Mushaira was very high. So the children are very interested in poetry and poetry. They feel a connection in emotions and poetry. They don't get that from anywhere else. You will get a rush in the city, but no one is ready to join the Urdu society. So this is a mental distortion of our youth, they don't understand what to say. Exactly. What to do with it. They want something to happen, but they don't want to do anything. Urdu should reach the sky and everything will be fine. So, that's the situation. I think that wherever you apply for a job, the first thing that is asked is whether you know how to speak fluent English. I think as a whole, it's the fault of the whole system. We can't put the responsibility of this on the students or on a generation. It's not a fault because English is our official language and we need it If you think about it, the most know-how in the world is English That's why people try to speak English when they go abroad So you should speak English in interviews If you are in a hurry, your English gets low low We have to do something about it. We don't do anything. And since childhood, learning English, speaking English, even after that we have to give IELTS and PTE to go abroad. Obviously, we are not natives, so we should have an idea that first it is Urdu, then English can be learned. The big thing is that we do not put the importance of English aside. But forgetting your own language is a kind of sin, that you put your thing aside and promote something else it's importance is in its place, its importance is in its place and the importance of your language is in its place it's very important for us to understand this and if we understand it on time, it will be better because the amount of takeover that English is doing on us it won't take much time to get out of control see, while speaking we are getting out of it I think we are half way through the sentence in English but it's okay. It's not our fault. There are a few, but it was nice talking to you. Thank you so much for spending an hour with me. I'm very thankful. Thank you so much. You're welcome. Whenever you need me.

Dismiss