Hira Ajmal

00:00 - 00:13 Hamna: My name is Hamna Khurram, and I'm an undergraduate student here at FCCU. Today I have Ms. Hira Ajmal with me and we are going to talk about the impacts of family support on the lives of professional females in Pakistan. Ma'am, how are you doing today?

00:14 - 00:15 Ms.Hira: I'm perfectly fine.

Keywords: family support, professional females, Pakistan 00:16 - 00:17 Hamna:It's an honor to have you here.

00:18 - 00:19 Ms.Hira:Thank you so much for having me.

Keywords:honor, gratitude 00:20 - 00:21 Hamna: Ma'am, shall we start?

00:21 - 00:21Ms.Hira:Yeah, sure.

00:22 - 00:26 Hamna: Before diving into the questions, could you introduce yourself, including your family and educational background?

00:27 - 02:27 Ms. Hira: Absolutely, I'm a working professional. I have been working for 12 years now in the corporate world. We are four sisters and I’ve no brother. My father was from the judiciary. So, nobody stepped into corporate until I switched my career into it. I started after bachelor’s with a training program. That was not a very easy decision, because in families, when girls go out for a job, it was a stigma. So, I worked really hard and after 4 years, I went for master’s along with my job. For that I worked on weekdays and studied on the weekends. It was a tough time but worth it as it pays me back. Now I am in a multinational company working with a very renowned brand as a Sales Lead.

Keywords: introduce, family, educational background 02:28 - 02:32 Hamna: And when you initially chose this career path, was your family supportive of it?

02:33 - 03:05 Ms.Hira: Definitely, there is no other question or any other mark on the support of the family because without that I would not have achieved this thing. I don’t have any brothers and I'm the eldest daughter, so everybody looks forward to me. They look up to me and set a mark we have to achieve.

Keywords: career path, family support 03:06 - 03:16 Hamna: And when you initially started your career, there must be some hurdles that were really difficult for you? How did family support help you to get through them?

03:17 - 05:10 Ms.Hira: Without family support, we cannot move even an inch in this society. I'm talking for women generally, because for a male, it is very easy as they have to get out to work. But for a female, it is not necessary, it's always a personal choice to grow in your career or not.

So if you are going out of home, you have to keep your family on board, that is very important. You have to have a very mature dialogue with your family about what you want to achieve and the support you need. Whether you're married or unmarried, whatever status you carry with you. If you are unmarried, there's your father, there's your mother, there's other siblings who actually support you. And if you are married, definitely then extended family comes in as well. So everybody has to be on board with what they want to achieve, and be supportive, because sometimes things are very tough, as we have to compete with male ultimately. We have to compete for talent ultimately. There are certain challenges including emotional and skillful challenges where your family has to be there.

Keywords: hurdles, difficult, family support 05:11 - 05:21 Hamna: And when you talk about that stigma that we have, do you think that the cultural stereotype for women really affects their work life or their work-life balance?

05:22 - 06:22Ms. Hira: I always used this term when I started, it's just 12 years back, but things have changed all across 180 degrees. At that time there was a stereotype, but now as the time passes, companies know how to carry the talented pool of women along. They are working on inclusivity, and workplace cultures where women can come, exist and nourish. I'm happy that we are now sitting in an era where there's less stigmas now as compared to when we started and were struggling. It has reduced a lot.

Keywords: cultural stereotypes, norms, family dynamics, fairness, career path 06:23 - 06:29 Hamna: And do you think that females still do suffer in comparison to their male colleagues in the workplace?

06:30 - 06:52 Ms.Hira: Yes, they still do. Because at the end of the day, a male colleague cannot accept the fact that a female colleague can have a challenge of gender. So in their mind, there's no gender, because it's a workplace, it's an equal place, but yes.

Keywords: Equality in workplace, Gender disparity 06:53 - 07:07 Hamna: And, in your experience, have you witnessed any relation between the quality of family support and your success in your work life?

07:08 - 09:01 Ms. Hira: Actually, they are directly proportional. The more support you get, the more flourished you become. You have to be very very clear in your career path. If you do not have any support, I would suggest not aspiring to the C-level positions. I work in sales, which is a very hardcore job. It has its own challenges. I have to be in a core field that is in the market because my work requires that. My family knows that and supports that. However, everyone shall support because at the end of the day it's an equal playground, right? So if there are hurdles, maybe you can negotiate with your family first rather than put up with the questions. Tell them about your aspirations, your work requirement, your skillset and your potential. You have to get them on board by asking them to allow you to do it. Because if they don't allow it, then the companies will never. It’s not a good thing to go to the company and ask for a C-level role with certain conditions.There's a question then: where's the equal playground? And they have the choice to hire male over there. In a company's role, they prefer hiring a male whom they have to take any responsibility over a female with so many terms.

Keywords: Quality of family support, success of work life 09:02 -09:15 Hamna: And we were talking about family dynamics. Do you believe that the cultural stereotypes or the cultural norms we have do affect that family dynamics? And do you think it's fair to the females that want to evolve in their career path?

09:16 - 09:58 Ms.Hira:Well, if we see the cultural norms, they are very high. Being a Pakistani, I don't think it's the same for males. Cultural norms are there but we cannot neglect them. We can change them but that would take a really long time. But again, there are people who do not want to change. That is there, and that will remain there, but we have to evolve our workplaces according to these things, because these are the norms which are equal for male and female both.

Keywords: Cultural Norms, Gender roles 09:59 -10:10 Hamna: And we talked about the extended family, do you think that it is fair that they have a say in what females choose in the case of their careers or their professional life? 10:11 - 11:29 Ms. Hira: They should have a say, and they should have a very positive say. Because at the end of the day, they are choosing their life partner. By extended family, I mean your spouse and in-laws. Because they are very close to you. So they should know that the girl we are choosing, what are her career goals, what are her aspirations. Find how educated she is. If we are demanding an educated girl, what do we have to make her do? You have to be very clear. Again, this is also applicable to girls. You have to be very loud and clear. Choose the man who supports you in your dreams, and your aspirations, rather than choosing a one, just for the sake of choosing, and then you both suffer. I am happy that now these things are changing a lot. Things were not the same before. Boys were not that supportive. In fact, families were not that supportive. But now, if we see girls' own families, in-laws, spouses, they are supportive which is why we have seen so many girls in workplaces and I hope that we will see them at C level as well.

Keywords: extended family, influence, career choices 11:30 -11:45 Hamna: With the current issues of the economy, do you think it is fair to pressure females into work to get financial independence or to help the financial system of the household change?

11:46 - 12:55 Ms. Hira: That depends. Economic change is another subject. And what you want out of your lifestyle is another thing. You want to aspire to a lifestyle and you work hard for it, whether you are male or female. So if one person cannot put up on the table, then there is a need for another person to work. Because if you can't bring an equal amount to the table, then it's not justified. And again, this is beneficial for girls as the more productive you are, the more you work on development. Everyone looks up to their parents and wants to inspire someone, majorly their mothers.

Keywords: economy, pressure, financial independence, household 12:57 -13:14 Hamna: About mothers and their role, we have this obligation of fulfilling duties, so do you think it's fair that they have those responsibilities connected to them while they build their careers and they have to do those duties without any choice?

13:15 -14:16 Ms. Hira: I would like to take a little leverage on this, being a girl. At the end of the day, girls are sensitive- that's the natural beauty of being a girl. Boys are tough. So being a male, there is a little more responsibility which is comparatively lesser for females. Because of the extra things girls have to do, it brings an emotional drain. If a girl is sitting at a table in a corporate office, then two more questions will be asked which might be harsh. When those two questions are ignored and you go home, you won't be in a good mood. And yes, that can happen with men too but they generally do have support.

Keywords: mothers, responsibilities, duties, fairness 14:17 - 14:23 Hamna:And what do you think is the psychological impact of lack of support or a lot of support?

14:24 - 15:04 Ms. Hira: It’d be psychological downtime, like a crash. It does happen. Again, like I said, girls are a little more sensitive by nature. God has made it and we can't change it. We can be tough or strong when we are demanding an equal role. So they say if you are demanding an equal role, then take a little more. So yes, there are a lot of psychological effects.

Keywords: psychological impact, support 15:05 - 15:10 Hamna: And in your daily life, how do you maintain a balance between the expectations of your family and your work life?

15:11 -15:46 Ms. Hira: I make sure that I find time for my family regardless of work. I negotiate with my family about the time I can give them and the time my work requires. If they ask for more, weekends are there. We hang around and I particularly spend a lot of time with my dad and I love that. I always sit with them for an hour or two, eat with them, watch the news, and talk about their favorite topics.

Keywords: balance, family expectations, work life 15:47 -16:18 Hamna: Do you think the family dynamics impact the ability of a woman to balance their work and family responsibilities. As in the conservative society, most of the time it's a very taboo topic for a woman to work in a professional field, or be in sales, or marketing, or be a business major, or go into mass communication, and be in front of the camera. So with that, how do you think that it impacts the women when they don't?

16:19 -18:54 Ms. Hira:It does have an impact.We still haven't got the acceptability that a girl can look after a business. Girls are still not able to absorb families in a way that they can, including in sales. If I tell my family that I'm handling a business, they’d understand because I have had this demand for years before. However, every family does not understand. I have several colleagues whose families do not understand. They allow them to work on the support part including in marketing, or have some role where there's no hardship and is glamorous. We should start bringing more girls towards this as girls are very smart. Noone can handle business better than a girl, because their ethical values are high, as compared to others. They go with the SOPs, policies, and the procedures. Manners and etiquettes are in their nature, which is why they build homes. I am being a little more pro-women, but that's the reality. There are a lot of opportunities for girls in this field. But the girls are not ready to come because there is no family support. And again, that relates to the thing that there is a stigma, a stereotype at the end of families as well, they do not understand that a woman can go into hardship and they do not want them to go into hardship.Yes, there are girls in e-commerce, but there's not that kind of hardship that you have to go to the market and see core business. In e-commerce, we haven’t gone to C-level yet. If we push our female talent to C-level, then there is a lot of room.

Keywords: family dynamics, balance, responsibilities 18:55 -19:01 Hamna: And what cultural shift do you think is necessary to create a more supportive environment for the women in Pakistan?

19:02 - 20:04 Ms. Hira: Well, the cultural shift can happen if we empower our girls a little more. By empowerment I mean let them dream, and fulfill their dreams. We have to empower them to study in colleges, do jobs, bring their part into the table, that is okay. Dreams are still being compromised somewhere. I won’t say boys are not compromising dreams, I'm sure there is something happening there too, but again, they do not have to ask someone to fulfill their dreams. On the other hand, we still have to ask someone to fulfill our dreams.The more we talk about dreams, the better.

Keywords: cultural shift, supportive environment, women in Pakistan 20:05 - 20:16 Hamna: And lastly, if you reflect on your journey, do you think there is any specific policy or initiative that could enhance the family support and contribute to the professional women's careers overall?

20:17 - 21:32 Ms. Hira: Well, in corporate many policies can be implemented to support the family. Anything related to the work culture or any initiatives or rewards. Now it's time for the corporate to do something. They are still working on inclusivity, women empowerment, a lot of work is being done. But it is still very important. When we go and tell them our basic needs, they think twice before making the policy whatever it is. I'm very vocal, so we have to justify why we want a leave on particular days of the month or even a day, how it affects us and why we can’t be in office. Many companies are working on this, while only a few have made some policies on this. Similarly, if you need support from a family member we have to justify why we need it. This is because we are demanding something extra.On the other hand boys don't want to justify it.

Keywords: policy, initiative, family support, professional women's careers 21:33 -21:40 Hamna: And do you think it's fair? I mean, the male colleagues, I believe, I'm not sure, don't have to justify every move or action.

21:41 -25:13 Ms. Hira: To be very honest, it's not fair. Since I have been in business, I know I have to be very rough and tough. So I compromise a lot of things but everybody cannot compromise or be rough and tough. Not every girl has the courage to go out and speak up front and put her needs on the table. It's not fair, you should make policies so that it's equal for everyone and girls need a little more support naturally. Companies should understand that. When we put our demands on the company table, they say, what is good about it for boys? Boys and girls are not equal, somewhere feminism has been portrayed wrongly somewhere. A boy and a girl can never be equal. If nature has not made them equal, then how can you say that?Then there is a debate about why a girl works and if it's allowed. Working is our human right. It is what Islam says. The nature of the girl is changed, so to fulfill that nature, you have to understand that you don't have to question everything from a girl. You shouldn’t ask why you need this, because the boy doesn't need it? We need support and we can justify it. These people know that the girls in their homes also need the same support. That's about understanding. I always talk about this, even with my management. When you bring an understanding in your homes, you understand the corporate girls better. I have seen this thing in my home. My father was a very different person when he raised us and after our university, he understood that I'd be the one who would fulfill our needs. He knew he had to support his daughters.He only put policies on a name for me to take at my workplace too. That's one admirable thing about him. You have to understand that girls at your home and your colleagues have needs and they need your support . If you get up from the seat for a female to sit, setting aside gender differences, that not only makes you a good person, but also a gentleman.

Keywords: cultural shift, supportive environment, women in Pakistan 25:14 - 25:18 Hamna: Thank you so much for the wonderful interview. I personally enjoyed it a lot.

25:19 -25:22 Ms. Hira: Thank you, I tried to fulfill all the things.

Keywords: gratitude 25:23 - 25:29 Hamna: There were a lot of answers that I liked,they were really nice and I love them. Thank you.

25:30 - 25:31 Ms. Hira: Thank you again.

Keywords: appreciation, gratitude