Kashif_Anwar_Reimaging Linguistic Diversity of Pakistani Languages

Interview Transcription

First of all, Assal Amu Alaikum

Wewaykum Assal am.

Can you kindly introduce yourself a little bit like to which region do you belong and what is your background?

My name is Anwar Ul Haq. I am from Bakara, near the land of thali. I am studying in my final year in FC College. I am a major in psychology and minor in philosophy.

As everyone has specific childhood experiences associated with specific time, so, shed some light on your childhood experiences.?

I will try to answer your questions in the context of psychology. Now, if I talk about some events of childhood, I have not seen the life children spend because we were in the cities. The mind of the children is influenced by their life. Their attitude towards people, their interaction, their love, their everything, they are connected to that. So, I remember a beautiful incident from my childhood. We used to sit in uncle Deena’s Hatti, play achoo. Another interesting thing, we had a religious teacher in our mosque, he used to keep track of all our prayers and then reward us on weekly basis. This was a good habit of the teacher; he used this trick to get children attached to the religion and he knew how religion works for the children. We are still thankful to him for such efforts. The teacher’s name was Qayyum. We used to play in the mosque and offer prayers. The teacher kept record of our prayers and rewarded us later back then. My childhood was spent in so religious setting. I remember, we used to take our torches at night and used to call our friends for the prayers from their homes. We would pray together. We would celebrate Eid Mladenovic in a good way. All these things would happen. Apart from that, if I talk about South Punjab, I talk about the Saraiki belt, and I talk about the land of Thal, there is a Muslim philosopher, Ibn Rushd, one of his quotes, I will first read it in English. And then I will translate it. He says, the people of deserts are very enthusiastic. They love and hate enthusiastically. I think this is true. The youth of the deserts, or the people of the deserts, they have a special thing in their hearts. If they love someone, they love to the peak. If they hate someone, they will hate to the peak. So, in that sense, our culture is influenced by the sweetness of the language, the sweetness of the attitude. I think language is the influence. Let take a little example, in Saraiki language, if we criticize someone, we still say the appreciation word bravo. If we see literal meaning of bravo, it is used for praise, but in Saraiki, this is such a sweet critique. However, I am somehow biased towards Saraiki. Such sweet memories of childhood have passed and we learned a lot from those experiences. Now I have come to Lahore and I have come to know that the people were very healthy and good back then.

What do you think about Saraiki language, is its use decreased/increased or is it the same as it was?

I think it is decreased, youth do not use it, they feel ashamed for being Saraiki. This is the major reason. I can tell you the reason for that. We have stigmatized them. We have not explained to them the meaning of the means to express themselves. As modernity is increasing, so people are losing interest in their language and culture They don't have the means to express themselves. I think that it is very important to preserve the regional languages of the world. But the effect of modernity is that people are leaving these things. They like English more. So, this is something that should be addressed.

As you know, language is a means of recognition. It shows its connection with the culture and shows its recognition. Are people speaking Saraiki has some influence from the language, some by the culture or by any other mean they express themselves.?

If I tell you what's in my heart, I feel that everyone has a different perspective in villages when it comes to this question. People are raised, they are taken care of, they are taught to be proud. But if I talk about the cities, and I associate with FC college and has the exposure, which I have been going to for the past 5-4 years, I have observed that people keep their identity safe from Saraiki. I have told you the reason for that earlier. There are some reasons for that. I have observed that. So, this is what is happening. People do not speak Saraiki and do not own it. There are reasons for that. People have researched about this. People feel ashamed. They don't get over it. Specifically in FC college, I have seen this.

As in our homes, you must have folklore and stories listened in your home as we have in Pashto, we used to listen stories from our grandmother, and from our mother, father and grandfather, what is your exposure to the listen folklore, what stories have you listened and from whom you have listened those?

No one asked me this question before, you asked me a question.it gave the impression that I am a person who is in the old age, so I think a lot. My grandmother used to sit with me. My aunt used to tell me stories. My mother used to tell me stories. If I talk about stories, my favourite story is the story of Hijau. and he goes to women, she speaks something to gheada, that is my favourite story, another story that consist of monsters that will eat everyone and everything.

You are Saraiki and Saraiki language must have impact on your life?

I think so, I have joined the Pathani’s, the Punjabis, I have a diverse population. I have a diverse observation. I have a lot of details. People don't have a feeling or understanding. They don't look at the matters as standing in someone’s else’s shoes. I have learned this from my mother. She is Saraiki mother. She is not a literate mother. She taught me to say sorry. I remember one incident I was there with my uncle and we were discussing about elections and politics and I didn't greet him, at night I told my mother that I did not greet him I was at home and my mother said, take your bike and go there to your uncle and say sorry for that. We did not come and go to our uncle house but my mother asked me to do so. Then I went there and said sorry. These habits I think are the teachings of parents and secondly, are part of Saraiki culture, I think. If I understand it correctly, it is a part of our culture. She helped me a lot. I never felt guilty. I am a human being. I never felt guilty that I was a kid. I never felt guilty by asking for the forgiveness. I think all these influences are from the Saraiki language and culture. If I talk about these incidents, my friends often say, he rarely gets angry.

You speak Saraiki, Urdu, and also you have Pashto friends. How do you maintain the Saraiki language?

I speak Saraiki with people who speak Saraiki and who like to learn Saraiki. Personally, I don’t know Pashto, but I have good Pashto speaker friends in university Rafique and Usama and all those. I have a lot of fun with them. There are people with whom, you speak Saraiki but they reply in Urdu. I prefer Saraiki personally but I change with other person as providing him the comfort.

You are Saraiki speaker, also you are connected to Saraiki culture, have you ever felt marginalized for being Saraki speaker?

If I speak about FC college, I have never felt that. I have good relations with all, staff, professors and all here. Dr Ghazala Irfan has helped me a lot. I told her on the very 1st day that I cannot understand English well, I have always been empowered rather marginalization. Because I have accepted my vulnerability, I was week in English. As English is an international language, we should learn it. I have never been marginalized. But, yes, there are some people who think in certain ways but that doesn’t matter.

Have you ever participated in any of the projects carried for the development of Saraiki language and culture?

A lot of people know about Shakir Sujai Abadi. There is another poet. I don't know the full name of the poet, but he has written a beautiful poem. The poem goes like this, (an Abhiyan de, a kale de, a sultan de, a ghazi de, Na Abhiyan de, a kale de, a sultan de, a ghazi de. Ithacan it ran gadi de, the bangle de, palace de. Tu kamala shir pardaxin Muhibbah de takahe de. Itha ta log pardaxin Janae hamulate de). I have helped a lot in building the council in FC college. I have helped in conducting the elections. I have worked as a returning officer in the elections. I have helped in voting. I have helped in making the FC more aware. I have helped in conducting Saraiki night and met mam shone and told her that. I am justifying why Saraiki is important, why Saraiki is important and why Saraiki is beautiful and sweet. Her response was so good. I told her that why it is necessary, our culture is very sweet and good. We should embrace it. We should understand it in the right way. We were given them permission. I have also served as the president of the Foreman Sociological Society. We organized some activities and study circles. We organized a circle of progressive students. I am a volunteer in the community and I am trying to contribute to the community by doing my best. I like it. And in all platforms, I have served Saraiki at every level and contributed from my side.

I like the poetry of Saraiki. I also listen to it. There is a place in Dhera Ismail Khan called Kalachi. You have heard of it. Yes, there is a poet named Kurban. Kurban Kalachi is the name of the poet. What is your favourite poet?

If I talk about it, it is Shakir Shuja Abadi. He is a very good poet. His poems are very good. If we were to look at this in a bigger context, if we were to try to understand this, then this is a very good question, which you ask God. Like How does the world work? Writing books and other literature is such a big thing of course but what I think is important is asking questions. This has been the history of humanity. The question is always important. In the first lecture of the philosophy class, Rd. Ghazala said There is no right answer. There is only one thing and that is called the right question. There is no right answer. One thing is right, and that is we should ask the right questions. I like a lot of Shakir Shuja Badi sahibs, I listen to them a lot. Basit Naeemi sahib, another singer, you may know, I listen to him a lot. He belongs to dear too. I was listening to him last days; I remember I liked his songs on YouTube. I liked the songs like (Aiyanna de Rog la k, Turiya, Rahiya). There are more singers of Saraiki language like Attaullah, Cheena, and I also hear to Mansur Malanga, Zeeshan Rodri and Satar Lakhmi. I listen to them a lot in Cheena. I listen to their songs and my mother listens to them with me. My mother is old, she is in her 60s. as you know, people become more religious when they are in their old ages. We both like chena’s songs. I have them but I don’t remember their names. This is one of my activities that I listen songs with my mother.

Did you take any action regarding ongoing struggle for Saraiki language your area?

I will answer this question. I did not do anything for Saraiki language. But I did study psychology and academia. I have taught kids for the last 2.5 months in our area during the COVID-19 pandemic. I have introduced them to new things. I have been trying to teach them new ways of communication. The other thing that I started working on it, and I want to build a library where women can sit. Where they can read some books together. I wanted to do qualitative research on all the different ways of life. I wanted to try to understand them through my own psychology. This will be my attempt in the coming years.

In the Saraiki culture, I saw a video of Zaheer Mehari Sahib yesterday. He was performing a Jhumar at a wedding. He was holding small sticks in his hands. It was a very special way of jumar. No one can do it. I have seen no one doing like it?

There are many different ways. For example, the way of Jumar of Balochi which is performed in dear Ismail khan, which is a bit different from the way of Jumar of Laya, Bhakkar, and D.G. Khan. It is a bit different. If you come to this side, you will find a different Jumar. The way of speaking is also different. I don't know if you have heard of it, but I have observed that the language has changed. In Our tradition, which I think is the best, is that, at night in winters, in south Punjab, youth gather, sit on a specific spot and play games, and the one who loses is responsible to make meal for those who win the game. I enjoy this a lot and I used to sit with them when I go back to my village. Oftentimes, when I go to my village, I do walk, run, meditate and eat rural foods. This way is the one I like the most because if we view it with psychological lens, this is very important for the people. If we criticize it on one hand, that Saraiki people are a bit lethargic but if we see it as, there is a term in psychology called as group therapy, which is when you sit together and share your joys and sorrows and have same mindset, it heals you and makes your life better.

My project is about Saraiki language documentation, your thoughts?

You are doing great, if I say I also like Pashtuns very much, I went to north Waziristan, south Waziristan, Shawal, bidder, making. Also, I have Pashtun friends like brothers and I am the admirer of your culture. If one can understand, the land of Pashtuns is very beautiful. Keep up the good work, stay blessed and keep it continued.

And the last question is, any advice or message for the youth of Saraiki language?

Oh, let me remove the advice word first, because I myself is still young and in process of learning, but yes, I do have message for the youth that is we should embrace our language, read our culture, I am at least not limiting anyone to just stick to all this but I feel good interacting and sitting with people of my language and culture. I enjoy it a lot.

Thank you Anwar bhai

Stay Blessed Kashif

Interview Transcription

First of all, Assal Amu Alaikum

Wewaykum Assal am.

Can you kindly introduce yourself a little bit like to which region do you belong and what is your background?

My name is Anwar Ul Haq. I am from Bakara, near the land of thali. I am studying in my final year in FC College. I am a major in psychology and minor in philosophy.

As everyone has specific childhood experiences associated with specific time, so, shed some light on your childhood experiences.?

I will try to answer your questions in the context of psychology. Now, if I talk about some events of childhood, I have not seen the life children spend because we were in the cities. The mind of the children is influenced by their life. Their attitude towards people, their interaction, their love, their everything, they are connected to that. So, I remember a beautiful incident from my childhood. We used to sit in uncle Deena’s Hatti, play achoo. Another interesting thing, we had a religious teacher in our mosque, he used to keep track of all our prayers and then reward us on weekly basis. This was a good habit of the teacher; he used this trick to get children attached to the religion and he knew how religion works for the children. We are still thankful to him for such efforts. The teacher’s name was Qayyum. We used to play in the mosque and offer prayers. The teacher kept record of our prayers and rewarded us later back then. My childhood was spent in so religious setting. I remember, we used to take our torches at night and used to call our friends for the prayers from their homes. We would pray together. We would celebrate Eid Mladenovic in a good way. All these things would happen. Apart from that, if I talk about South Punjab, I talk about the Saraiki belt, and I talk about the land of Thal, there is a Muslim philosopher, Ibn Rushd, one of his quotes, I will first read it in English. And then I will translate it. He says, the people of deserts are very enthusiastic. They love and hate enthusiastically. I think this is true. The youth of the deserts, or the people of the deserts, they have a special thing in their hearts. If they love someone, they love to the peak. If they hate someone, they will hate to the peak. So, in that sense, our culture is influenced by the sweetness of the language, the sweetness of the attitude. I think language is the influence. Let take a little example, in Saraiki language, if we criticize someone, we still say the appreciation word bravo. If we see literal meaning of bravo, it is used for praise, but in Saraiki, this is such a sweet critique. However, I am somehow biased towards Saraiki. Such sweet memories of childhood have passed and we learned a lot from those experiences. Now I have come to Lahore and I have come to know that the people were very healthy and good back then.

What do you think about Saraiki language, is its use decreased/increased or is it the same as it was?

I think it is decreased, youth do not use it, they feel ashamed for being Saraiki. This is the major reason. I can tell you the reason for that. We have stigmatized them. We have not explained to them the meaning of the means to express themselves. As modernity is increasing, so people are losing interest in their language and culture They don't have the means to express themselves. I think that it is very important to preserve the regional languages of the world. But the effect of modernity is that people are leaving these things. They like English more. So, this is something that should be addressed.

As you know, language is a means of recognition. It shows its connection with the culture and shows its recognition. Are people speaking Saraiki has some influence from the language, some by the culture or by any other mean they express themselves.?

If I tell you what's in my heart, I feel that everyone has a different perspective in villages when it comes to this question. People are raised, they are taken care of, they are taught to be proud. But if I talk about the cities, and I associate with FC college and has the exposure, which I have been going to for the past 5-4 years, I have observed that people keep their identity safe from Saraiki. I have told you the reason for that earlier. There are some reasons for that. I have observed that. So, this is what is happening. People do not speak Saraiki and do not own it. There are reasons for that. People have researched about this. People feel ashamed. They don't get over it. Specifically in FC college, I have seen this.

As in our homes, you must have folklore and stories listened in your home as we have in Pashto, we used to listen stories from our grandmother, and from our mother, father and grandfather, what is your exposure to the listen folklore, what stories have you listened and from whom you have listened those?

No one asked me this question before, you asked me a question.it gave the impression that I am a person who is in the old age, so I think a lot. My grandmother used to sit with me. My aunt used to tell me stories. My mother used to tell me stories. If I talk about stories, my favourite story is the story of Hijau. and he goes to women, she speaks something to gheada, that is my favourite story, another story that consist of monsters that will eat everyone and everything.

You are Saraiki and Saraiki language must have impact on your life?

I think so, I have joined the Pathani’s, the Punjabis, I have a diverse population. I have a diverse observation. I have a lot of details. People don't have a feeling or understanding. They don't look at the matters as standing in someone’s else’s shoes. I have learned this from my mother. She is Saraiki mother. She is not a literate mother. She taught me to say sorry. I remember one incident I was there with my uncle and we were discussing about elections and politics and I didn't greet him, at night I told my mother that I did not greet him I was at home and my mother said, take your bike and go there to your uncle and say sorry for that. We did not come and go to our uncle house but my mother asked me to do so. Then I went there and said sorry. These habits I think are the teachings of parents and secondly, are part of Saraiki culture, I think. If I understand it correctly, it is a part of our culture. She helped me a lot. I never felt guilty. I am a human being. I never felt guilty that I was a kid. I never felt guilty by asking for the forgiveness. I think all these influences are from the Saraiki language and culture. If I talk about these incidents, my friends often say, he rarely gets angry.

You speak Saraiki, Urdu, and also you have Pashto friends. How do you maintain the Saraiki language?

I speak Saraiki with people who speak Saraiki and who like to learn Saraiki. Personally, I don’t know Pashto, but I have good Pashto speaker friends in university Rafique and Usama and all those. I have a lot of fun with them. There are people with whom, you speak Saraiki but they reply in Urdu. I prefer Saraiki personally but I change with other person as providing him the comfort.

You are Saraiki speaker, also you are connected to Saraiki culture, have you ever felt marginalized for being Saraki speaker?

If I speak about FC college, I have never felt that. I have good relations with all, staff, professors and all here. Dr Ghazala Irfan has helped me a lot. I told her on the very 1st day that I cannot understand English well, I have always been empowered rather marginalization. Because I have accepted my vulnerability, I was week in English. As English is an international language, we should learn it. I have never been marginalized. But, yes, there are some people who think in certain ways but that doesn’t matter.

Have you ever participated in any of the projects carried for the development of Saraiki language and culture?

A lot of people know about Shakir Sujai Abadi. There is another poet. I don't know the full name of the poet, but he has written a beautiful poem. The poem goes like this, (an Abhiyan de, a kale de, a sultan de, a ghazi de, Na Abhiyan de, a kale de, a sultan de, a ghazi de. Ithacan it ran gadi de, the bangle de, palace de. Tu kamala shir pardaxin Muhibbah de takahe de. Itha ta log pardaxin Janae hamulate de). I have helped a lot in building the council in FC college. I have helped in conducting the elections. I have worked as a returning officer in the elections. I have helped in voting. I have helped in making the FC more aware. I have helped in conducting Saraiki night and met mam shone and told her that. I am justifying why Saraiki is important, why Saraiki is important and why Saraiki is beautiful and sweet. Her response was so good. I told her that why it is necessary, our culture is very sweet and good. We should embrace it. We should understand it in the right way. We were given them permission. I have also served as the president of the Foreman Sociological Society. We organized some activities and study circles. We organized a circle of progressive students. I am a volunteer in the community and I am trying to contribute to the community by doing my best. I like it. And in all platforms, I have served Saraiki at every level and contributed from my side.

I like the poetry of Saraiki. I also listen to it. There is a place in Dhera Ismail Khan called Kalachi. You have heard of it. Yes, there is a poet named Kurban. Kurban Kalachi is the name of the poet. What is your favourite poet?

If I talk about it, it is Shakir Shuja Abadi. He is a very good poet. His poems are very good. If we were to look at this in a bigger context, if we were to try to understand this, then this is a very good question, which you ask God. Like How does the world work? Writing books and other literature is such a big thing of course but what I think is important is asking questions. This has been the history of humanity. The question is always important. In the first lecture of the philosophy class, Rd. Ghazala said There is no right answer. There is only one thing and that is called the right question. There is no right answer. One thing is right, and that is we should ask the right questions. I like a lot of Shakir Shuja Badi sahibs, I listen to them a lot. Basit Naeemi sahib, another singer, you may know, I listen to him a lot. He belongs to dear too. I was listening to him last days; I remember I liked his songs on YouTube. I liked the songs like (Aiyanna de Rog la k, Turiya, Rahiya). There are more singers of Saraiki language like Attaullah, Cheena, and I also hear to Mansur Malanga, Zeeshan Rodri and Satar Lakhmi. I listen to them a lot in Cheena. I listen to their songs and my mother listens to them with me. My mother is old, she is in her 60s. as you know, people become more religious when they are in their old ages. We both like chena’s songs. I have them but I don’t remember their names. This is one of my activities that I listen songs with my mother.

Did you take any action regarding ongoing struggle for Saraiki language your area?

I will answer this question. I did not do anything for Saraiki language. But I did study psychology and academia. I have taught kids for the last 2.5 months in our area during the COVID-19 pandemic. I have introduced them to new things. I have been trying to teach them new ways of communication. The other thing that I started working on it, and I want to build a library where women can sit. Where they can read some books together. I wanted to do qualitative research on all the different ways of life. I wanted to try to understand them through my own psychology. This will be my attempt in the coming years.

In the Saraiki culture, I saw a video of Zaheer Mehari Sahib yesterday. He was performing a Jhumar at a wedding. He was holding small sticks in his hands. It was a very special way of jumar. No one can do it. I have seen no one doing like it?

There are many different ways. For example, the way of Jumar of Balochi which is performed in dear Ismail khan, which is a bit different from the way of Jumar of Laya, Bhakkar, and D.G. Khan. It is a bit different. If you come to this side, you will find a different Jumar. The way of speaking is also different. I don't know if you have heard of it, but I have observed that the language has changed. In Our tradition, which I think is the best, is that, at night in winters, in south Punjab, youth gather, sit on a specific spot and play games, and the one who loses is responsible to make meal for those who win the game. I enjoy this a lot and I used to sit with them when I go back to my village. Oftentimes, when I go to my village, I do walk, run, meditate and eat rural foods. This way is the one I like the most because if we view it with psychological lens, this is very important for the people. If we criticize it on one hand, that Saraiki people are a bit lethargic but if we see it as, there is a term in psychology called as group therapy, which is when you sit together and share your joys and sorrows and have same mindset, it heals you and makes your life better.

My project is about Saraiki language documentation, your thoughts?

You are doing great, if I say I also like Pashtuns very much, I went to north Waziristan, south Waziristan, Shawal, bidder, making. Also, I have Pashtun friends like brothers and I am the admirer of your culture. If one can understand, the land of Pashtuns is very beautiful. Keep up the good work, stay blessed and keep it continued.

And the last question is, any advice or message for the youth of Saraiki language?

Oh, let me remove the advice word first, because I myself is still young and in process of learning, but yes, I do have message for the youth that is we should embrace our language, read our culture, I am at least not limiting anyone to just stick to all this but I feel good interacting and sitting with people of my language and culture. I enjoy it a lot.

Thank you Anwar bhai

Stay Blessed Kashif