Carmen King

Alma Urbano: Ok so for the record my name is Alma Urbano and today is July 21st 2016 and this is around 10 a.m.

Carmen King: Yes

Alma Urbano: I would say, and I'm here with Carmen King who has kindly agreed to be interviewed by me and taking the time to talk to me about her experiences at Kenyon college. If you could consent to this interview as you know this interview is recorded and will be videotaped and transcribed and displayed to people and public historical records.

Carmen King: Yes I give my consent.

Alma Urbano: Ok awesome first of all thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me. I know you have things going on probably. I am sorry.

Carmen King: A little bit of work over the summer, yes.

Alma Urbano: Ok yeah, thank you so much. You were like one of the first people who responded that was very nice of you.

Carmen King: You're welcome.

Alma Urbano: So to begin I just want to say this project is supposed to capture the little differences, Well not little. The little different and unique parts of the Kenyon experience, as you know we all experience the same hill, changes occasionally, it's supposed to be very traditional places you know. To start I just want to hear a little bit about your background and maybe a little bit about your family or the community you belonged to before coming to Kenyon so if you could just go into that.

Carmen King: So background I was born in Puerto Rico, my mother is Puerto Rican and my Father is not he is of a German-Irish background. We moved when i was a child, an infant, to Boston, and I've basically lived in the continental US for most of my life with long three month trips back to Puerto Rico on occasion when I was growing up and then uhm so other visits there as an adult and a lot of my 00:02:00mothers immediately family would come visit. So Puerto Rico would come to visit us wherever we happened to be living. Pennsylvania, St. Louis, Cincinnati.

Alma Urbano: So you've lived in many places?

Carmen King: Yes I have lived in many places in the continental US my father was a visiting professor until I was 10. So every year maybe two we would move until he had a tenure track job in St. Louis, and then I grew up in St. Louis. And St. Louis is very much a melting pot but it is more a melting pot of German, French backgrounds and Jewish ancestry. At that time there wasn't a huge Spanish population but there is now a larger Spanish population. It was very exciting. I remember when I was about twelve we had found a Spanish grocery store where we could go in and get Gambules and different kinds of Hispanic food. It was very 00:03:00exciting. You would go in and get different kinds of the sodas that come from Mexico and other places not so, not necessarily Puerto Rican foods but you make the food from what you find. So that was exciting but we would also go home and bring back different foods with us from Puerto Rico. Yes, yes I'm sure everyone has that experience of bringing home with you when you return.

Alma Urbano: Trying to carry food across borders. So you lived in St. Louis

Carmen King: I lived in St. Louis for about twelve years going through High School and then undergraduate at St Louis U. I went abroad first semester sort of graduate school abroad in London, came back and did an undergraduate degree in St louis University, or I mean a graduate degree at St. Louis U. then I went 00:04:00on to work in Nebraska and stayed in Nebraska for about three years and then went back to Missouri to the University of Missouri for my library degree and then started my professional career up in Michigan as a librarian in the department library at Eastern Michigan University. And I went to the University of Michigan for my Art History degree so lots of different places and lots of different degrees.

Alma Urbano: And then eventually.

Carmen King: And then after about five years at the university of Michigan I moved South. Here to Kenyon. A position opened up and it sounded interesting, it's' very different from what I do now. I like the community of people, and I like the location. I like the Isolation, although I don't see it as Isolation, Columbus is an hour away.

Alma Urbano: Ok and then how did you get to come to Kenyon?

Carmen King: Well the job opened here, because I was a librarian at eastern Michigan University. The librarian position here was fine arts and you would run also the multi-media room and the videos, because at that time it was all videos, and the slide room. Which was over here at that time and you would oversee the two people who worked in those areas. That's what I came to do hide books and occasionally teach students how to do things at the reference desk and then work with the two people running those distinct areas.

Alma Urbano: Ok and when you came to Kenyon I'm sure you found family of sorts?

Carmen King: I did, lots of friends, women my age primarily and we are in a lot of different departments across campus and we would have pets so a lot of us 00:06:00would go dog walking. We had a common interest in film. So we would go driving to Columbus as a group. Maybe a car or two would go into Columbus and see a couple of movies at least one. Eat a meal out, and then come back. So that's how it started up slowly but surely there came to be more Hispanic students and more Hispanic faculty on campus which was wonderful. I remember one day Cara and Odio came in 82 I think, I came in 89, and Cara had been here a few years and said "Oh we have a new Yarbrough fellow starting in the English department and she's also from Puerto Rico." and that is when professor Garcia started up in English 00:07:00and at the same time professor Lopez started in Psychology and suddenly there were four of us from Puerto Rico living and working in the college which was great and ya know we would meet and professors Garcia, and Lopez and I taught a class in the evening on Hispanic film. We did Under the Same Moon and we did West Side Story and we did another film a documentary about Latinos in America and we did a fourth film but I don't remember that title right away. And then have discussion, we would eat dinner together, watch the film, and then have discussions afterwards with the students and other community members who wanted to take the class so it was exciting. We applied for a grant to buy the rights 00:08:00to show the films and to buy additional films for the college and that year I had bought about thirty different Hispanic films for the college, from all different sort of Latin American and Central American countries so all sorts of different titles came into the library that year.

Alma Urbano: How do you think the class was?

Carmen King: I think it was well received we had at the one evening about twenty people. I think the least number we had was about twelve and that was right after Thanksgiving break and exams were that week and it got a little crazy. But it was very enjoyable. I think it opened the eyes to some of the community members who hadn't really thought about Latina film, Latino film as the way we thought about it. They all loved West Side Story, everybody loves West Side 00:09:00Story and they don't see it as a film that has a lot of bigotry in it. For the most part the film has two Latinos in it and everybody else is White putting on accents or "acting" the way they do. So it was eye opening to them as well.

Alma Urbano: So there was not a similar thing happening before?

Carmen King: No, no, now West Side Story did get used in film quite a bit but not in a way that we found very productive for a discussion about Latina film and how it should be seen. It was a new way for people in the community about how we should actually look at Latina film.

Alma Urbano: So you think it brought a whole new perspective to the community at Kenyon college?

Carmen King: I think so, small community but it was a start and then professor 00:10:00Garcia the next year taught a class incorporating West Side Story and a number of other films we had bought and I came in and talked to the students about the film and how it had been created by Bernstein and he just wanted it to be Romeo and Juliet and the reason why he had wrote it a Latina spin was because he had read an article in the Newspaper that day about a gang rumble that had occurred in New York city and that's how he had just based his whole film and the score getting started.

Alma Urbano: How long did the class last?

Carmen King: It was a four week class. It was just offered in the evenings, some of the kids, some of the students that had took it did extra credit for classes they were taking and other classes they were taking. So I like to think of it as the rumbling of Latina, Latino studies for other programs. It started small but 00:11:00it had eventually become a program.

Alma Urbano: You talked about how you had met with the other professors and faculty from Puerto Rico. Were there other things you did on campus that tried to connect yourself back to home and say you're Latin American or Puerto Rican?

Carmen King: Couple of times in the fall we had celebrated Puerto Rican Month. We would have a diner over at lake Snowden or at the Global Studies and bring in different Puerto Rican foods. I remember one year making cookies from Puerto Rico. Not quite the cookies I had remembered going to the store to get but it was my attempt. Flan, we had rice and Pollo, and some of the other really good foods and professor Garcia, and Lopez would bring in other foods as well. Small 00:12:00community but we start celebrating small events such as Puerto Rican heritage month and other people joined in. That's how things get started here at Kenyon, small traditions get built upon.

Alma Urbano: Yeah Little by little you just have people, and people talk more about those with students too.

Carmen King: Right and one of the things I do is I buy books for the library and I have bought sort of all along books that can be used in the classes on Puerto Rico and on Cuba and on different cultures. At the beginning I did mostly on the area of the fine arts, so it was some salsa dancing books we have down stairs with conjunction of some of the dance history classes that are taught. As well as some books on Baroque art and architecture in Mexico came in because we had a 00:13:00faculty member thinking she would like to teach a class in that area. So slow beginnings and then now that I work with the art history and history department in international studies we've bought more and more books on Latina Studies, Latino Studies, and Immigration. I've bought Immigration materials for twenty years now because I work with the faculty finding the films that they want to use. "Oh here's a book being published on a similar topic so let's pull it into the collection."

Alma Urbano: It's interesting because I think about classes and lectures and you never think about the people bringing the books to the library where those lectures are increasing the amount of exposure that some people get.

Carmen King: You have to watch the film that talks about Arizona's law where you have to learn English and you know there were all of these students who spoke 00:14:00primarily Spanish and their culture. The Arizona law, the educational law decided, well we'll get rid of those classes that are being taught for the Hispanic students. That film only came into our library because I went out and bought it. I reached out to find somebody who was distributing it. Then we pull in a few more books about education and Hispanics it just doesn't all magically appear in the library. Somebody who gives it some thought and you have to start thinking a few years ahead of time before the course is taught in order for the materials to actually be here in time for you to actually use them.

Alma Urbano: Well going off of our discussion about books and film are there things from home that you miss?

Carmen King: Oh I miss warm weather. The winters are hard on me. I don't 00:15:00particularly care for all of the snow and ice. I think of warm breezes and tropical smells when the winter gets worse. I can't say I've brought in things physically to the college from my home. I have not been to the island in a while. My grandmother is dead, so are my aunts and uncles. It's a place of beauty and I think about it often. And I know I need to get back there, one reason being is they've reissued our birth certificates and in order to get it you need to go back to the island and go register for your birth certificate so right now I don't have one that is valid. Yes I know it's a bit worrisome but I 00:16:00have a passport so I think that I am ok. So I do talk about Puerto Rico and some of the people have gone from the community and I've ya know told them you have to go to old San Juan because its so beautiful and ancient and although I've not been to the rainforest myself I understand it is beautiful, everybody else reports its' beautiful so I tell other people about the island. Beautiful beaches.

Alma Urbano: How would you describe your interactions with some of the students or other students from Puerto Rico?

Carmen King: I've met a few, I don't always get to see them, but if I know they're from there we'll talk or if they were born in Chicago from Puerto Rican families we talk about their parents experiences being first generation here in the states and some of the trials they had to go through with language learning. I mean my mother had to do the same thing when she came up from the island the first time. She knew English but using it idiomatically certainly was quite 00:17:00different for her. Certainly is quite different when you learn a new language and then you go and use it with another community that doesn't speak anything else but say English. Those are things I've tried to do here at the college.

Alma Urbano: Going back you've mentioned struggles and trials that other students go through. Were there anything that you particularly struggled with when you came to Kenyon in general or?

Carmen King: I think I did finding the community I wanted to belong too. Back in the late 80s way back then we all had to live within ten miles of the college that was a rule. Originally it was a one mile rule, then they expanded it to 00:18:00three miles and when i got here in the 80s it was a ten mile rule and there just weren't a lot of people quite like me. I had this multicultural background so that was a little bit hard and I do remember one time walking around Walmart so this was about five years after I had arrived here and suddenly I heard somebody speaking Spanish so I looked up and just "ya know who is speaking Spanish?" so I just took the shopping cart and started going around the store looking for people and it was some of the people that were working for the cement construction. There were these migrants in the area that come in when there is work to do and I would follow them around the store because they were speaking 00:19:00Spanish and I could understand and it was very interesting. I just remember thinking "Who are these people? Where do you come from? And what are they doing here in Knox county?" cause it just didn't seem like there were very many of us. Professor Pasquala's wife is from Puerto Rico as well but I didn't see her because she was raising a young family so I didn't see her because our interests weren't the same. So that was one and then another experience happened not here but happened in London sitting in a terminal while I was waiting to fly back. And suddenly somebody is speaking Spanish all around and there were thirty young kids from New York city who were visiting London and they were complaining about the food. And I was just reading an article yesterday literally about Puerto Rican food. And in the article it said Puerto Ricans require rice. It's our 00:20:00absolute you have to have every day life sustaining food stuff, food source. And these kids had been going for about three weeks without rice and I just remember hearing them complaining and thinking well ya know you had a good time in London didn't you? And I would talk to them and the food was just terrible here just terrible and it never really rang true until I read this article yesterday about Puerto Rican food and how people from the island just have to have rice everyday it's just required it just is. Finally it made sense after twenty years why these kids were so unhappy having been in England which was great for three weeks and just hated it because they didn't have rice. So I wonder here about the students from any of our Latina cultures where rice is more important than 00:21:00any of the food stuff for every day if they get what they need here with the ABI?

Alma Urbano: I'm noticing how important food is to the culture or many cultures in general food is a big part of any specific culture and when you come to a place where food is not available there is a need to readjust.

Carmen King: I think I made a few readjustments because when I came from the Ann Arbor area north of here in Michigan, we had many sorts of different international foods. It's a very sort of eclectic food two town system where there are many different types of restaurants where I came here to mount Vernon and it really was a sort of white culture food area meat, and potatoes. It's a 00:22:00farm area there wasn't an international flavor until professor Bryce opened up the restaurant. I remember when the Taco bell moved into town and they said free tacos to anybody that comes to visit on day one and there was a really long line all the way up Coshocton avenue back to the radio station, there wasn't a light up there at the time and there was just people waiting up there and I was thinking "This is just really not Mexican food." The taco bell but culturally it was different for Knox county and Mount Vernon and that's why there has been a good response to the international foods that have arrived. We sort of we wanted them. I don't think Knox country really understood how much we wanted the 00:23:00possibility of Asian food or Turkish food or Greek food or the Indian food that we now have. Now we're a little slow to maybe adapt to it. If it's ya know down in Utica there was a Thai restaurant down there but there was a Thai another Asian culture, not everybody would go down there to eat at that restaurant I'm not necessarily sure they're still in business but we want it, we want it here. I'm very excited about the new Thai restaurant moving to mount Vernon.

Alma Urbano: I didn't know that.

Carmen King: Its opening in the old hallmark store. But we have to wait for it.

Alma Urbano: It will get here eventually going back to when first I think Romideo was the first one, Puerto Rican to move in.

Carmen King: I would say it was very exciting for me. Cara did live in Columbus 00:24:00so she was just up here for part days and she had two small children. It was very exciting to meet somebody who's accent wasn't hard for me to understand. Ya know and I'm not good about speaking in Spanish because it was not something that was. It was not accepted well in the community I grew up in St. Louis. You spoke only in English and anybody who had an accent was looked upon only as you needed to improve your English skills. So my mother didn't speak Spanish at school because of that. One of the elementary school teachers spoke to her and said it was a problem so she stopped having us speaking it. She would speak to us occasionally. And she would still ask to not speak to us in Spanish. I still don't speak Spanish well because of that. I can understand people when they 00:25:00speak it which is why I trail after people in grocery stores because I can understand what they're saying. But no it was great to have Cara here. To know there was somebody else who liked the island as much as I did, who had been born there as I did. And Cara was raised there so she was much different. Cara has a lot of virgin Mary statues for example and I don't I have much more of the German and English attributes of the church in my home where as I can see in Cara she's got the different Madonnas in her house. I would say very different, but it's very beautiful, very Hispanic.

Alma Urbano: I can say I find it fascinating how you come from very different cultures but it's still part of you and works perfectly fine.

Carmen King: Right and I would say my own home is very much German English then it is Puerto Rican but every once and a while there will be a little pop of color! And it's like "oh I know where that came from." Or a Journaling class that was offered here a few years ago, a woman came in and showed us how to make a cover for a journal book. It was part of a Just an artists series I think it was. The cover I made for my journal was I think the Island. I still go back to my roots from Puerto Rico.

Alma Urbano: You have it in you?

Carmen King: I have it in me. When I was a teenager and went to live in Britain for a year and started grad school there I had a patch that I wore on my thermal 00:27:00jacket every day that said "Proud to be Puerto Rican." and I still have that patch somewhere at the house.

Alma Urbano: Was there anything else, was there a time that you felt as the Other or with any culture or well especially at Kenyon?

Carmen King: Not at Kenyon because Kenyon is very accepting of the Other and being a little bit different. I don't think so. It was a little unusual one year. We had a group of students who were from Irish backgrounds together. I was working with Tim McMullen and we were working on building the Irish film collection. The same thing I had done in fact I think I had done it before the Spanish film collection. Part of my background is also Irish and the students 00:28:00they were talking about feeling disassociated from America because they were from this Irish background and their families had been looked down upon for years. And it was interesting to hear that coming from students who I would never have thought of for feeling this disaffected feeling. I mean it may not make too much sense but it was very unusual. I also have strong feelings also for my Irish background. And the strength of that having gone to the island a couple of times, that island to see where my other ancestors came from. So it was interesting to see the Irish kids feeling disaffected and then sometimes hearing the Hispanic students feeling disassociated with the United States in particular the Latino Students.

Alma Urbano: Did you notice other patterns when that many Latino Students 00:29:00started coming to Kenyon?

Carmen King: Yes well uhm, Adelante had already started in effect a few years before I came it had already started up. But I see the students I hear them talking. I listen into their conversations a little bit. I try not too. There is a joy to when they celebrate all of the different Hispanic, when we have Hispanic month in September that they get to talk about their homes or they get to eat different international foods through AVI and it does go to the extra step and bring in the international foods to the cafeteria. Which is great, so I do see the kids and celebrate with them. From a step back with all that they are doing but we have had the displays and the flags here at the library and reading 00:30:00the poetry readings in the uhm special collections and things like that. If anybody came forward and needed help I will usually be there to give them extra assistance if we need a film to show during Hispanic month. I know where all of the documentaries are that have public rights that we can use. I know everybody wants a feature film but I can't help them with that but I do find other films that they can use.

Alma Urbano: Yeah you mention Adelante and I was looking through the records and Adelante wasn't officially approved until 1989.

Carmen King: The year I came.

Alma Urbano: Yeah that was, an interesting connection and then Rodeo had mentioned Garcia, Lopez.

Carmen King: And then Simon Garcia as well. He's been here fourteen years I think? Slowly but surely we're building a community of faculty who have a Hispanic background and that's important to attracting students cause these are the faculty who offer the classes and then we have professor Suarez Potts who does Latin in central America and his courses and uhm ya know he can help us with the perspective that is not always shown by some of the other faculty. Professor Powers teaches a very good course on immigration and incorporates working with the Mexican Immigrants in Ohio with the students. It's a real community engagement learning project. And it's the students because I've seen, 00:32:00I work a lot with those students. I've seen them working on getting some of the articles in Spanish and some of the students in their groups do read Spanish so they help the other students understand all of the text that they're having to incorporate into their papers. So that's been fun working with all of the students. It's a challenge because not all of the students are great Spanish readers so we have to find articles that they can understand. But I've seen a whole new side of students who develop real sympathy towards these migrant workers. Going to some of the lectures the gentleman who runs some of the Migrant worker representation for south east Ohio will come and give talks here. 00:33:00He's been interesting to see here and get these kids enthusiastic about these projects.

Alma Urbano: You mentioned various perspectives even within the Latin American community in Kenyon college do you see any changes coming to Kenyon in the future since Kenyon is supposed to be changing or will probably change anyway in terms of structure and administration?

Carmen King: Well certainly having professor Garcia as another associate Provost is good. When she's working with the minorities and other groups on campus I think she brings with her a certain kind of sympathy to understanding the Hispanic culture whereas Chris Kennerly really works well with the African 00:34:00American community and really understands their point of view. We've got Evon understanding and taking in what the Hispanic students bring to campus and what their concerns are so I think we have a few more faculty starting in our Latino Latina Studies program, we're going to bring more students in. I think you know because there is this interest and having a part of the students experience our campus they may not major in Latina studies or international studies with the Latina program and a strong emphasis with the Latina studies but there are more 00:35:00and more people who want to study the language and Hispanic cultures who are not Hispanic themselves so there getting better exposure here at Kenyon and they're developing a certain sympathy and empathy maybe with the culture? Ya know they just want to learn more about it and maybe go and teach there or do a full bright there in another country. We have quite a few who have done south American projects and I've worked with some of those kids on figuring out what they want to do when they go down to Argentina. And I've worked with some of the international students who have come this direction. One of my favorite students, a good friend, is from Peru. She's visited since she graduated. I visited her in New York, so there's been back and forth. Her parents have stayed with me, My father and brother met them when they were in Peru. They were very 00:36:00good hosts for my father and brother down there. I think you learn a lot from at least the other people that you meet from all of these other cultures.

Alma Urbano: It can also be like a mentor mentee connection that you had. Even as an administrator You'll still work very closely with students.

Carmen King: Yes, Right because many, when i used to run units like the music listening room I had students from all over the world. I had a student whose family background was Japanese but sometime in the last century her family moved to Brazil so Cynthia herself spoke Portuguese and she came here to Kenyon, She 00:37:00spoke Portuguese, Japanese, and English. Did really well here at Kenyon, her mom came for her graduation. It was really very interesting to see her family because her mom was a first generation in Brazil but she did not speak any Japanese herself. So it was interesting to see all of the new cultures here at Kenyon. There are more international flags with every graduation. You know and we obviously here at Kenyon have Strengthened ourselves by giving the Snowden 00:38:00center and global engagement we've put an emphasis on international culture and education here.

Alma Urbano: Going back to your general experience here at Kenyon college. Still going on it has been going on, is there something you wish you had known before coming to Kenyon or maybe more in the beginning?

Carmen King: I think to dive more deeply into the experience. I tell people now when they come here, first year faculty board and administrators to "go to all of the events you possibly can get into whether its drama, or its a sporting event, or its a music event." Because the students one will engage more with you 00:39:00if you go up to you at a concert and say to them and you say "Gee that was a really nice piece I enjoyed it, or you did really well in your recital." I just think it makes you more a part of the community here to really engage in it and I think we've lost some of that because not a lot of people live here in Gambier and more of them live in Columbus or a lot further off so I was sorry to see the 10 mile rule go away in part because people do move and then aren't here at night for the events. "Oh the weather's bad, I don't want to drive home through the snow." or "oh my kids are in school and they have a soccer game I can't make the drive from one to the other." Our teams and our students who are in concerts and plays do amazing jobs and go on to do wonderful things. Fun to see them 00:40:00growing up I love to see those four years how students change. I had a student come in yesterday. I hired him my first year in 1989 he showed up yesterday with his little son. He hadn't been here in a while but he dropped in. So it was kind of fun to see a student from way back then.

Alma Urbano: Wow, is that, would that go along with if you could change something about your Kenyon experience what would it be?

Carmen King: Getting more engaged with the students I really would from the start. With the kids who work for me that's one thing I've always done is engage with the students which they make the place interesting. It's not just all about the faculty, administrators, and staff. It's all of us. And sharing some of experiences with the students besides the sporting events and everything else 00:41:00the 2004 presidential election when we had to keep the polls open until 4:00 a.m. so people could vote I thought that was pretty cool. We were making history here at Kenyon. Because of the polls and having to keep it open for the students because there was a breakdown of equipment so voting couldn't happen for a long time. And them showing them occasionally new things like the film class that we taught. Who looked at west side stories as a negative before that?

Alma Urbano: Yea it changed.

Carmen King: It changed their vision of how to look at a film from a Spanish prospective. Or under the same moon which was shown in the same series which was a lovely film.

Alma Urbano: Is there anything you would change if you could change about Kenyon?

Carmen King: Uhm, I don't think so. I like Kenyon sort of the way it is. I've become very into the traditional culture but we've adapted a few things have really made me happy. The celebration of the Hispanic month in September and then we have the one for Puerto Rico and October to November. We've pulled in 00:43:00things to make everybody more inclusive and I think that's a good thing that's happened is inclusivity. I think stopping any sort of violence? Ya know bad things happen against each other when somebody puts up a sign that's really not appropriate we can stop that. It just doesn't seem to be the Kenyon way to be negative about a culture or a race. Those things only happen every once and awhile not very often and I just think it's somebody's immaturity and that they just need to grow up.

Alma Urbano: Thank you so much again for taking the time to talk to me. Is there anything else?

Carmen King: Nope this was very fascinating I'm glad to know Adelante is going to celebrate its big anniversary this fall. Do you have special plans? Do they have 00:44:00special plans?

Alma Urbano: They're trying to figure it out I'm sure.

Carmen King: Well if they need help. I'm not a great cook or a great Baker but I can try!

Alma Urbano: Yeah we are doing the general raising the flags down stairs and then the 30th anniversary which they're still trying to figure out.

Carmen King: Are they bringing the flags back to the library?

Alma Urbano: For the?

Carmen King: For the raising of the flags?

Alma Urbano: Yeah.

Carmen King: Because I mean I thought it would be a great Idea to have them over there at Pierce because everybody goes to pierce. And those theft of the flags just made me so unhappy.

Alma Urbano: Did you hear about that?

Carmen King: We all heard about that because that was an unfortunate. We thought we had them strung up high enough we thought nobody would get to them and then somebody shimmied up the poles to get to the flags. And I thought that was a much better place because it would be seen by everybody going into pierce verses 00:45:00not everybody walks in and out of the first food of the library. I also thought this wasn't very secure but obviously this is much more secure than over there. So that sort of made me mad.

Alma Urbano: Do you know some of the responses from other people?

Carmen King: Oh yeah I mean it's pretty universal, who is that immature that they have to have that flag and why be destructive to somebody else's property?

Alma Urbano: We hope that we better.

Carmen King: Well good I'm glad you're back here in the library where it's safer.

Alma Urbano: We'll see how it goes. Part of this project will be incorporated somewhere in there and we'll have alumni there.

Carmen King: Will it be like last year where we had the community within the Latino, the libra. Will you have those poster boards presented downstairs?

Alma Urbano: We're still working on that. We'll have something presented because 00:46:00I found some articles and some pictures. See how that goes.

Carmen King: Well I hope you'll present like an old or odder and one of those venues about the community because it's another community within.