Noor_Fatima_Reimaging Linguistic Diversity of Pakistani Languages

Fatima Batool, Persian language:

[ 00:01:00 - 00:02:00] today we have with us uh Fatima Batool uh thank you Fatima for giving us your time and this interview is conducted for the course of language documentation

[ 00:03:00 - 00:04:00] and i am covering the language Persian so Fatima please tell us about your early life

[ 00:05:00 - 00:06:00] life here at fc college and in association with the language Persian okay so um basically

[ 00:07:00 - 00:08:00] um if i talk about me being associated with persian is because my mother belongs from iran so um

[ 00:09:00 - 00:10:00] either it's my sisters or brothers

[ 00:11:00 - 00:12:00] plus uh my life in fccu um

[ 00:13:00 - 00:14:00] i think it has been part of a persian community did you find any and no no i uh i have not found

[ 00:15:00 - 00:16:00] any single person here who speaks in persian or belongs from iran or something like that mostly when people from if they belong from quetta they are mostly pathan or they are um

[ 00:17:00 - 00:18:00] baloch so um my language has not been um you know here i have not found someone who speaks same language right right so

[ 00:19:00 - 00:20:00] i have specific terms which i want you to address and um such as what would you call

[ 00:21:00 - 00:22:00] mother okay so mother we call madre right yeah and father uh father we call it babi yeah

[ 00:23:00 - 00:24:00] right and uh what term do you use for grandparents okay so uh basically um it is uh nanoit or nanayt

[ 00:25:00 - 00:26:00] like in our house we used to call our nanny mother john right so that's how we used to address her

[ 00:27:00 - 00:28:00] right and uh brother uh brother and sister and uncle and aunt um uncle like

[ 00:29:00 - 00:30:00] um okay so can you share particularly meaningful or ancient oral tradition from your hometown that you believe should be preserved for future generations anything you think

[ 00:31:00 - 00:32:00] is essential which could be preserved okay so um maybe uh

[ 00:33:00 - 00:34:00] even i have seen people mostly in turkey doing it but uh we have this thing that whenever we meet uh an elder person or an aged person we always kiss their hand so i think it's a symbol of

[ 00:35:00 - 00:36:00] respect and love which we show so i think that um it's it's a good thing it should be carried on

[ 00:37:00 - 00:38:00] or basic you know even now generation they should be doing this thing so and do you think it is being um diminished over time yes obviously uh

[ 00:39:00 - 00:40:00] people know um they don't give that much of respect or they feel hesitant to do such things

[ 00:41:00 - 00:42:00] to do such gestures so i think yes it's just fading away with time right um what are some of the challenges that you and your community face in preserving your culture and traditions

[ 00:43:00 - 00:44:00] um if i talk about um pakistan so in pakistan mostly the persian community they live in koita

[ 00:45:00 - 00:46:00] um um i think that because of also their uh religious sector because most of the persian

[ 00:47:00 - 00:48:00] people they belong from um shia sector right so um they out of fear or whatever we call it

[ 00:49:00 - 00:50:00] they do not travel much to the other cities like up even fc may or to any other uh you know um

[ 00:51:00 - 00:52:00] cities i have not seen much of persian people but i have seen pashtos i have seen many other people so due to that i think it's a good thing that we have this kind of culture and tradition you know um so maybe they are also like a kind of a colonial family and i think that

[ 00:53:00 - 00:54:00] maybe they have moved out because of yeah i guess um most of them either they are in

[ 00:55:00 - 00:56:00] iran or they are in koita to that also not all over the koita koita maybe a particular

[ 00:57:00 - 00:58:00] area here which is uh you know for the uh persian community or joe is their farsi man apkelo because they form a shia group then their security positions also are limited for example bhi hai or sub bhi hai because jo bhi threats

[ 00:59:00 - 01:00:00] hai jo bhi hai toh us cheez ki wajah se even they don't let their kids go out study or wo sab cheeze hai toh how do you think your language

[ 01:01:00 - 01:02:00] could be preserved and over here in Pakistan personally because as you just said that there are threats and people don't move out

[ 01:03:00 - 01:04:00] from Quetta so preserving a language is obviously then difficult and it isn't taught in schools

[ 01:05:00 - 01:06:00] it was being taught at some time at very initial you know I guess in 90s it was common in school to be you know Arabic and Persian word languages so

[ 01:07:00 - 01:08:00] now I think that how can we do that is Persian poetry is something which is still circulating around the globe and through Alama Iqbal so I think

[ 01:09:00 - 01:10:00] we do Urdu ke Mushairi we do Urdu ki Shairi if we encourage such activities within our schools or

[ 01:11:00 - 01:12:00] educational institutes so students will be familiar with such things it will be great how do you feel as a native speaker of Persian and

[ 01:13:00 - 01:14:00] multilingual community of FCCU how do you feel about the fact that you are a native speaker of Persian and multilingual community of FCCU how do you feel about the fact that you are a native speaker of Persian and multilingual community of FCCU how does that impact your use of language because as you just said that you don't know anyone yeah so how do you you know keep polishing your

[ 01:15:00 - 01:16:00] linguistic skills it's the same anyone from Lahore or from Multan they don't know how to speak in Persian I don't know anyone so the only place where I speak in my language

[ 01:17:00 - 01:18:00] is my home or in Quetta with my relatives so it is it is unfortunately it is a sad part that I don't get to speak that much because there is no one

[ 01:19:00 - 01:20:00] there is no one they don't understand it they don't know how to you know you have a little bit idea of Punjabi you have a little bit idea of Saraiki but when it comes to Persian it is a whole other language

[ 01:21:00 - 01:22:00] and you don't get it you are completely unaware what they are talking about you don't even pick it so that language can't be used right right right right so do you

[ 01:23:00 - 01:24:00] how do you you know try to stay in touch with the language then while living over here the only ways I call my mother and talk with her in Farsi

[ 01:25:00 - 01:26:00] other than that there is no so you communicate in Persian with your family yeah within our house what is your favorite word

[ 01:27:00 - 01:28:00] phrase or any quote in Persian and why okay so in daily life we use this phrase a lot within our sibling is

[ 01:29:00 - 01:30:00] Khuda Khutur Bupursa Allah toh toh mein poochay right right this is just a common phrase we use a lot or I guess this is my a lot of frustration and was up yeah

[ 01:31:00 - 01:32:00] so I like this phrase a lot yeah it seems very interesting phrase okay so how has Persian shaped your identity?

[ 01:33:00 - 01:34:00] I think Persian in itself it's a very beautiful respectful and a sweet language

[ 01:35:00 - 01:36:00] whenever I talk in Persian I feel as if I'm talking with a lot of love and respect to the other person I'm communicating with a lot of sweetness

[ 01:37:00 - 01:38:00] so it has been and even when it comes to Persian I get a lot of love from people like in my childhood I used to have a lot of love for Persian songs like recently there was this song

[ 01:39:00 - 01:40:00] a very hit song in this animal movie that was in Persian Jamal oh right so I guess even with such songs if we promote it right so that's one thing

[ 01:41:00 - 01:42:00] I connect a lot with the songs and all of that happens to you obviously it's a native language so that's all right so um could you share with us in your

[ 01:43:00 - 01:44:00] language how you would express or describe certain emotions or feelings such as happiness how do you

[ 01:45:00 - 01:46:00] you know right uh sadness or disappointment

[ 01:47:00 - 01:48:00] so this is what it means love or excitement um

[ 01:49:00 - 01:50:00] and um excitement is um um

[ 01:51:00 - 01:52:00] all right

[ 01:53:00 - 01:54:00] okay so what was your favorite food growing up and was it homemade if so please share the recipe um and do you have any other dishes unique to your culture

[ 01:55:00 - 01:56:00] okay so yes uh uh fortunately my mother knows that i'm a foodie so i'm a foodie so i'm a foodie so i'm a foodie so i'm a foodie so i'm a a foodie so i know a lot of irani dishes and you know uh so we have tried uh ash uh we have

[ 01:57:00 - 01:58:00] tried kunafa which is now very famous in uh pakistan is a basically irani dish irani sweet and um uh we've made that at home

[ 01:59:00 - 02:00:00] plus uh ash is basically um noodles type right uh and in that yogurt and all that uh uh uh

[ 02:01:00 - 02:02:00] On top of that, they add the keema in spices. And then there are a lot of toppings in it.

[ 02:03:00 - 02:04:00] Kidney beans and things like this. It's very yummy. It's very delicious. One of my favorite dishes. Yeah, it seems very delicious.

[ 02:05:00 - 02:06:00] So, do you have any idea about rare vocabulary, forgotten words and proverbs or ancient versions of the language? At times, whenever I hear...

[ 02:07:00 - 02:08:00] And could you please use them over here as well? Okay, so basically, with ancient words, even I'm not good with them.

[ 02:09:00 - 02:10:00] Because we have not communicated that much with our grandfathers or grandmothers.

[ 02:11:00 - 02:12:00] But yes, when I hear some sort of Farsi poetry. Or Farsi songs of the old times.

[ 02:13:00 - 02:14:00] So, they used to use very thick Farsi in them. Can you give us an example of how it has evolved from back then to now? How it has evolved?

[ 02:15:00 - 02:16:00] So, basically, even in English, even in Urdu, we use short terms of certain phrases, right? So, I guess that in the same way...

[ 02:17:00 - 02:18:00] There are a lot of things that have been defined in a very different way. If I give an example, then I'll say that...

[ 02:19:00 - 02:20:00] Like, I'm very happy. I have a feeling towards someone I like.

[ 02:21:00 - 02:22:00] So, I guess, the way I've heard it in poetry and in that, it's very different. And even their pronunciations differ a lot now. Right. The way we... Right. The way we talk.

[ 02:23:00 - 02:24:00] The way we say, an accent has changed a lot with time. Because, obviously, Urdu and all that gets mixed up.

[ 02:25:00 - 02:26:00] So, it's not spoken fluently or in the way it's originally spoken. So, it's like mixed of other languages. Yeah. It has become with time. Yeah. Okay.

[ 02:27:00 - 02:28:00] So, while living over here, you've lived in Multan, as you've mentioned, and Lahore as well.

[ 02:29:00 - 02:30:00] So, have you experienced any differences in culture-wise, culture shock, from your community?

[ 02:31:00 - 02:32:00] Such as, when it comes to weddings, festivals, such as Eid, and other functions?

[ 02:33:00 - 02:34:00] So, basically, if you see Persian people, I think they live with a lot of simplicity. Right. All of them, they have dinner while sitting down at the ground. Right.

[ 02:35:00 - 02:36:00] Right. In Farsi Bans or in Quetta, there's not much culture of, you know, having a dining table. So, they all have dinner. And we call it Sufra. Dastakhan. Right.

[ 02:37:00 - 02:38:00] Like, even in Ramzan, which is mostly everywhere, that we sit down during Ramzan. It happens in Persians that they do their dinner throughout the year. They sit down and do it. One factor is this.

[ 02:39:00 - 02:40:00] And the other is that, even Eid, it is like... Right.

[ 02:41:00 - 02:42:00] In Persians, it happens that we get ready within the house, we have guests, we celebrate like this.

[ 02:43:00 - 02:44:00] But in Persians, one thing is that, the way they welcome guests, the way they invite people, the way they...

[ 02:45:00 - 02:46:00] Like, I feel like I have lived throughout many cities within Pakistan. I have lived in Multan, Lahore, Karachi, Islamabad. But the way I have seen Persian people...

[ 02:47:00 - 02:48:00] Right. You know, the way they treat you, there is no other community have done in such a way. With a lot of welcoming, you know, behavior or whatever we call it. Warmness. Yeah.

[ 02:49:00 - 02:50:00] A lot of warmness. So, yes, that's something. Right. Okay, so, what is your favorite song, Vazal? And what is it about? Could you, like, narrate it for us?

[ 02:51:00 - 02:52:00] Or, if you want, we could play it as well. Okay, I have a poem. We cannot play it. It's just, I know it orally, so I'll be saying it out.

[ 02:53:00 - 02:54:00] Yeah, just sing it out and then explain it to us. Okay, sure. So, the poem is basically... Zindagi asto, marg azma.

[ 02:55:00 - 02:56:00] Rahat asto, narahati azma. Khushi asto, ghama azma. Har cheez asto, wali tu azma. Which is... Which basically means that...

[ 02:57:00 - 02:58:00] Zindagi aapki aur maath meri. Sakoon aapka, besakooni meri. Khushiya aapki, gham mere. (translation)

[ 02:59:00 - 03:00:00] Sab kuch aapka, sirf aap mere. Oh, wow. That is beautiful. Beautiful it is. It is one of my favorites. Right. Thank you so much for giving us your valuable time.

[ 03:01:00 - 03:02:00] I've definitely learned a lot about... ...the language of the Indian language. I hope we find a system to maintain, sustain this language.

[ 03:03:00 - 03:04:00] And it's also taught in institutes just like any other language. So thank you so much, Fatima. No problem. Thank you. Thank you.

[ 03:05:00 - 03:06:00] Thank you.

[ 03:07:00 - 03:08:00] Thank you. Thank you.

Fatima Batool, Persian language:

[ - ] today we have with us uh Fatima Batool uh thank you Fatima for giving us your time and this interview is conducted for the course of language documentation

[ - ] and i am covering the language Persian so Fatima please tell us about your early life

[ - ] life here at fc college and in association with the language Persian okay so um basically

[ - ] um if i talk about me being associated with persian is because my mother belongs from iran so um

[ - ] either it's my sisters or brothers

[ - ] plus uh my life in fccu um

[ - ] i think it has been part of a persian community did you find any and no no i uh i have not found

[ - ] any single person here who speaks in persian or belongs from iran or something like that mostly when people from if they belong from quetta they are mostly pathan or they are um

[ - ] baloch so um my language has not been um you know here i have not found someone who speaks same language right right so

[ - ] i have specific terms which i want you to address and um such as what would you call

[ - ] mother okay so mother we call madre right yeah and father uh father we call it babi yeah

[ - ] right and uh what term do you use for grandparents okay so uh basically um it is uh nanoit or nanayt

[ - ] like in our house we used to call our nanny mother john right so that's how we used to address her

[ - ] right and uh brother uh brother and sister and uncle and aunt um uncle like

[ - ] um okay so can you share particularly meaningful or ancient oral tradition from your hometown that you believe should be preserved for future generations anything you think

[ - ] is essential which could be preserved okay so um maybe uh

[ - ] even i have seen people mostly in turkey doing it but uh we have this thing that whenever we meet uh an elder person or an aged person we always kiss their hand so i think it's a symbol of

[ - ] respect and love which we show so i think that um it's it's a good thing it should be carried on

[ - ] or basic you know even now generation they should be doing this thing so and do you think it is being um diminished over time yes obviously uh

[ - ] people know um they don't give that much of respect or they feel hesitant to do such things

[ - ] to do such gestures so i think yes it's just fading away with time right um what are some of the challenges that you and your community face in preserving your culture and traditions

[ - ] um if i talk about um pakistan so in pakistan mostly the persian community they live in koita

[ - ] um um i think that because of also their uh religious sector because most of the persian

[ - ] people they belong from um shia sector right so um they out of fear or whatever we call it

[ - ] they do not travel much to the other cities like up even fc may or to any other uh you know um

[ - ] cities i have not seen much of persian people but i have seen pashtos i have seen many other people so due to that i think it's a good thing that we have this kind of culture and tradition you know um so maybe they are also like a kind of a colonial family and i think that

[ - ] maybe they have moved out because of yeah i guess um most of them either they are in

[ - ] iran or they are in koita to that also not all over the koita koita maybe a particular

[ - ] area here which is uh you know for the uh persian community or joe is their farsi man apkelo because they form a shia group then their security positions also are limited for example bhi hai or sub bhi hai because jo bhi threats

[ - ] hai jo bhi hai toh us cheez ki wajah se even they don't let their kids go out study or wo sab cheeze hai toh how do you think your language

[ - ] could be preserved and over here in Pakistan personally because as you just said that there are threats and people don't move out

[ - ] from Quetta so preserving a language is obviously then difficult and it isn't taught in schools

[ - ] it was being taught at some time at very initial you know I guess in 90s it was common in school to be you know Arabic and Persian word languages so

[ - ] now I think that how can we do that is Persian poetry is something which is still circulating around the globe and through Alama Iqbal so I think

[ - ] we do Urdu ke Mushairi we do Urdu ki Shairi if we encourage such activities within our schools or

[ - ] educational institutes so students will be familiar with such things it will be great how do you feel as a native speaker of Persian and

[ - ] multilingual community of FCCU how do you feel about the fact that you are a native speaker of Persian and multilingual community of FCCU how do you feel about the fact that you are a native speaker of Persian and multilingual community of FCCU how does that impact your use of language because as you just said that you don't know anyone yeah so how do you you know keep polishing your

[ - ] linguistic skills it's the same anyone from Lahore or from Multan they don't know how to speak in Persian I don't know anyone so the only place where I speak in my language

[ - ] is my home or in Quetta with my relatives so it is it is unfortunately it is a sad part that I don't get to speak that much because there is no one

[ - ] there is no one they don't understand it they don't know how to you know you have a little bit idea of Punjabi you have a little bit idea of Saraiki but when it comes to Persian it is a whole other language

[ - ] and you don't get it you are completely unaware what they are talking about you don't even pick it so that language can't be used right right right right so do you

[ - ] how do you you know try to stay in touch with the language then while living over here the only ways I call my mother and talk with her in Farsi

[ - ] other than that there is no so you communicate in Persian with your family yeah within our house what is your favorite word

[ - ] phrase or any quote in Persian and why okay so in daily life we use this phrase a lot within our sibling is

[ - ] Khuda Khutur Bupursa Allah toh toh mein poochay right right this is just a common phrase we use a lot or I guess this is my a lot of frustration and was up yeah

[ - ] so I like this phrase a lot yeah it seems very interesting phrase okay so how has Persian shaped your identity?

[ - ] I think Persian in itself it's a very beautiful respectful and a sweet language

[ - ] whenever I talk in Persian I feel as if I'm talking with a lot of love and respect to the other person I'm communicating with a lot of sweetness

[ - ] so it has been and even when it comes to Persian I get a lot of love from people like in my childhood I used to have a lot of love for Persian songs like recently there was this song

[ - ] a very hit song in this animal movie that was in Persian Jamal oh right so I guess even with such songs if we promote it right so that's one thing

[ - ] I connect a lot with the songs and all of that happens to you obviously it's a native language so that's all right so um could you share with us in your

[ - ] language how you would express or describe certain emotions or feelings such as happiness how do you

[ - ] you know right uh sadness or disappointment

[ - ] so this is what it means love or excitement um

[ - ] and um excitement is um um

[ - ] all right

[ - ] okay so what was your favorite food growing up and was it homemade if so please share the recipe um and do you have any other dishes unique to your culture

[ - ] okay so yes uh uh fortunately my mother knows that i'm a foodie so i'm a foodie so i'm a foodie so i'm a foodie so i'm a foodie so i'm a a foodie so i know a lot of irani dishes and you know uh so we have tried uh ash uh we have

[ - ] tried kunafa which is now very famous in uh pakistan is a basically irani dish irani sweet and um uh we've made that at home

[ - ] plus uh ash is basically um noodles type right uh and in that yogurt and all that uh uh uh

[ - ] On top of that, they add the keema in spices. And then there are a lot of toppings in it.

[ - ] Kidney beans and things like this. It's very yummy. It's very delicious. One of my favorite dishes. Yeah, it seems very delicious.

[ - ] So, do you have any idea about rare vocabulary, forgotten words and proverbs or ancient versions of the language? At times, whenever I hear...

[ - ] And could you please use them over here as well? Okay, so basically, with ancient words, even I'm not good with them.

[ - ] Because we have not communicated that much with our grandfathers or grandmothers.

[ - ] But yes, when I hear some sort of Farsi poetry. Or Farsi songs of the old times.

[ - ] So, they used to use very thick Farsi in them. Can you give us an example of how it has evolved from back then to now? How it has evolved?

[ - ] So, basically, even in English, even in Urdu, we use short terms of certain phrases, right? So, I guess that in the same way...

[ - ] There are a lot of things that have been defined in a very different way. If I give an example, then I'll say that...

[ - ] Like, I'm very happy. I have a feeling towards someone I like.

[ - ] So, I guess, the way I've heard it in poetry and in that, it's very different. And even their pronunciations differ a lot now. Right. The way we... Right. The way we talk.

[ - ] The way we say, an accent has changed a lot with time. Because, obviously, Urdu and all that gets mixed up.

[ - ] So, it's not spoken fluently or in the way it's originally spoken. So, it's like mixed of other languages. Yeah. It has become with time. Yeah. Okay.

[ - ] So, while living over here, you've lived in Multan, as you've mentioned, and Lahore as well.

[ - ] So, have you experienced any differences in culture-wise, culture shock, from your community?

[ - ] Such as, when it comes to weddings, festivals, such as Eid, and other functions?

[ - ] So, basically, if you see Persian people, I think they live with a lot of simplicity. Right. All of them, they have dinner while sitting down at the ground. Right.

[ - ] Right. In Farsi Bans or in Quetta, there's not much culture of, you know, having a dining table. So, they all have dinner. And we call it Sufra. Dastakhan. Right.

[ - ] Like, even in Ramzan, which is mostly everywhere, that we sit down during Ramzan. It happens in Persians that they do their dinner throughout the year. They sit down and do it. One factor is this.

[ - ] And the other is that, even Eid, it is like... Right.

[ - ] In Persians, it happens that we get ready within the house, we have guests, we celebrate like this.

[ - ] But in Persians, one thing is that, the way they welcome guests, the way they invite people, the way they...

[ - ] Like, I feel like I have lived throughout many cities within Pakistan. I have lived in Multan, Lahore, Karachi, Islamabad. But the way I have seen Persian people...

[ - ] Right. You know, the way they treat you, there is no other community have done in such a way. With a lot of welcoming, you know, behavior or whatever we call it. Warmness. Yeah.

[ - ] A lot of warmness. So, yes, that's something. Right. Okay, so, what is your favorite song, Vazal? And what is it about? Could you, like, narrate it for us?

[ - ] Or, if you want, we could play it as well. Okay, I have a poem. We cannot play it. It's just, I know it orally, so I'll be saying it out.

[ - ] Yeah, just sing it out and then explain it to us. Okay, sure. So, the poem is basically... Zindagi asto, marg azma.

[ - ] Rahat asto, narahati azma. Khushi asto, ghama azma. Har cheez asto, wali tu azma. Which is... Which basically means that...

[ - ] Zindagi aapki aur maath meri. Sakoon aapka, besakooni meri. Khushiya aapki, gham mere. (translation)

[ - ] Sab kuch aapka, sirf aap mere. Oh, wow. That is beautiful. Beautiful it is. It is one of my favorites. Right. Thank you so much for giving us your valuable time.

[ - ] I've definitely learned a lot about... ...the language of the Indian language. I hope we find a system to maintain, sustain this language.

[ - ] And it's also taught in institutes just like any other language. So thank you so much, Fatima. No problem. Thank you. Thank you.

[ - ] Thank you.

[ - ] Thank you. Thank you.