Shahzaib_Dr. Shahida_Reimaging Linguistic Diversity of Pakistani Languages

“Interview Transcription: Shahzaib Gulzar with Dr. Shahida Dilawar Shah” Hello, my name is Shahzaib Gulzar, an undergraduate student. The topic of this video is Language Documentation. In this video, I am going to conduct an interview with a Punjabi speaker who uses Punjabi as her native language. For this purpose, we have a very famous personality of FCCU, Dr. Shahida Dilawar Shah, with us. Interviewer: Assalam-o-Allaikum Madam! Interviewee: Waallaikum-u-salam Interviewer: how are you madam? Interviewee: I am good! How about you? Is everything okay? Interviewer: Ya! Alhamdulillah! Everything is fine Madam! Madam, can you introduce yourself to the viewers? Interviewee: Why not! Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem! My name is Dr. Shahida Dilawar Shah and I have done 3, 4 in fact 5 M.As, M.A Urdu, M.A Islamiat, M.A Punjabi, M.A Education and M.A Political Science. I wanted to become a barrister, but my inclination towards literature began, and I got involved in various activities 00:01:00like storytelling and more. Both areas of my career and my passion for literary activities were strong. Both were divine works, and both progressed simultaneously. In other words, my family had no issues because they thought I wouldn't neglect my studies. I didn't achieve much, but I've been genetically inclined towards literature. Understand that apart from studying, I've always continued with my work and literary activities. When the program started, you initially asked about literature. I responded that I wanted to become a barrister. For that reason, I pursued an MA in Political Science. I had secured a lecturer's appointment at Punjab University, but after that, they kept delaying for about a year. They told me that the Government of Punjab hadn't given them the go-ahead.

So, they asked me to wait for some time. Meanwhile, I got another job, and my subject was Urdu. I kept competing and working hard. It's said that if someone has the will, they find a way. Alongside, I continued with both storytelling and poetry, in both Punjabi and Urdu. I continued with storytelling and poetry. People started inviting me, and I began to write and recite my compositions. My interest grew. My parents didn't support my endeavors initially, but with the grace of the Almighty, I managed to fulfill my financial needs. Eventually, I left my studies midway and started writing. Initially, I began with short pieces.

I then started contributing to newspapers. There was a time when I used to write a single page, and that too about old times. My passion grew, and I began writing more stories. When I joined FC College, it was a significant step for me. FC College provided me with immense support, even though I hail from Punjab. I returned to the university, either GC University. The cycle continued, and by the time I reached around the 12th to 16th book, I completed my Master's degree. I started working alongside my studies. As time passed, I began giving exams. With prayers and blessings, my creative works, including my books, poetry, stories, novels, and research books, were published.

I felt immense pleasure in writing all these books, and I believe it's a blessing from the Almighty. With the recognition and awards I received, I felt that the government had given me as much as I deserved. Someone once said to me, 'Know your worth, lion.' In 2015, I was honored with a literary award for my book. The prize money was awarded, and the award itself was a great honor. For the first time, in 2015, by the grace of Allah, my book was recognized and received a first-place position among many. There's only one first place. The journey continues, and a novel of mine from 2023 is set to be released in 2024. I've started working on a new novel with a publishing house. The proofreading and other processes are underway, and God willing, it will be released in 2024. I've written various fictional stories,

short stories, and micro-fiction pieces. However, these days… There is an international trend nowadays where people prefer shorter novels. Thus, my traditional long stories are not as popular. Nowadays, the international standard is such that within one novel, there are multiple stories running in parallel. They address various issues, both within society and beyond. When it comes to Shahmukhi (Punjabi script), at the end of the introduction, I would certainly mention that I have connections with India as well. Especially with Gurumukhi script. Gurumukhi is the script that Punjabi is written in. Although some people recognize Gurumukhi, many do not. But when I started writing, the ink began to flow… I also need to wield the pen. I have written all the letters in Urdu. However, there is a constant war nowadays, meaning the battle of articles in newspapers. I don't have time for my literary life. You all are doing various tasks; some write about societal challenges, events, etc. But my focus

is mostly on literary articles. My journey began with Punjabi and Urdu. My struggle with Urdu started when I began writing. Although the struggle with Urdu was less, my first book was in Urdu. My Punjabi book was published in 2005. This was the beginning, and as the journey continued, Urdu became more special to me, especially in novels. Both languages have their significance for me. While I may be more involved with Urdu, I have not abandoned Punjabi. You cannot gauge my attachment or affection for Punjabi based on how frequently you call me after so many years. I still write for 'Ajit Weekly', and that too in Gurmukhi,

spanning from British Columbia to California, New York, the UK, and beyond. Life and its commitments mean I don't write Urdu or any other language continuously. When the muse strikes, I pick up the pen. Time may be limited, but my dedication to both languages continues. While Punjabi remains close to my heart, Urdu is not just a national language; it's more. Urdu and Punjabi are branches, Gurmukhi is another, and although I know Persian to some extent, English is the only language that is essential for communication. Beyond that, I have four languages: Punjabi, Urdu, Persian, and English.

Both these languages were present but not dominant. However, English is essential. It's a journey that I've never found difficult. Communicating in English, understanding it, and speaking it are all easy. Wherever I go, be it a country, a province, a city, or a place to live, English is present. It's become a part of life. It's rare to find someone who can't at least understand English, even if not fluently. Personally, I've never faced any difficulty. If you speak Urdu, I can converse in that too,

Madam. When you visit from U.P.S.C., and if you speak in English, does it mean, 'Madam, your subject is English?' What I mean is, if you have designed it this way and it becomes a part of life, adopting languages joyfully, then there's no difficulty. It's neither hard for me to speak in Punjabi nor in Urdu. It's been so many years since I've been teaching Urdu, and it doesn't bother me. This year too, my result was 100%, meaning

everyone

passed. I have 21 sections, and not a single student failed in any of the 21 sections. All of them passed with flying colors. 77 is a record; out of 77 students, none failed. It doesn't mean that they were all from high-class backgrounds, but these 77 students passed the board intermediate exams. It shows the effort they put in, and there were no difficulties for them. Going to F.C college. After school, there are no issues related to culture. If you talk about F.C. College, it is not influenced by any particular culture; there are no concerns, no biases. Look, culture is what makes a person; if a person doesn't adopt their culture, it's their loss. Whether

it's the staff or the American Vice Rector, you can speak in Urdu or Punjabi. Speaking Punjabi doesn't mean you're not adhering to culture; it's about embracing one's own culture. Come and bring forth good things. It's as simple as in Punjab and Lahore; the staff understands the indications and signals. Actually, the entire world follows trends. If a part of that world changes, then it's essential for humans to adapt to that change. For instance, if a graveyard becomes a place for cremation, and if that change brings about something good, every religion should accept and adopt it. Regarding the Punjabi language, remember the past incidents. Some things have surfaced, and I have responded.

When you were at F.C. College, you had mentioned some Punjabi issues. Now, everyone there, both staff and students, needs to focus on who they are and what their role is. Place good milestones and benchmarks. Strive to take feedback from your institution's students and staff about the quality of the place. It's about their livelihood, linked to business, especially if it's related to English. They might have been linked to Punjabi if something has been lacking in that aspect. Look, if someone has mastered Punjabi or has a B.Sc. degree in it, where will they go to find a job? Because today, bringing home a livelihood is crucial. Especially for third-world countries, it's a challenge. Another question is, what latest initiatives have you taken for the Punjabi language? You see, I have dedicated my life to Punjabi.

Punjabi has always been my strong foundation. I have always cherished and held onto this language closely. I have never degraded its importance, and neither has the subject ever let me down. Look, when you consider F.C. College, it's a renowned institution in Asia, with a vast media center. Shahab was a brilliant student, and perhaps, he called me today because of my proficiency in Punjabi. If I could converse in Punjabi, maybe you wouldn't have even had the opportunity to speak at the media center. And by speaking Punjabi, I might have achieved something, be it a job or some recognition. Even if I completed a high-level degree in Punjabi, I never sought any credit for it. There might not be any financial benefit, but it's a passion. The pride

I feel in speaking Punjabi or

the effort to uphold Punjabi values, even when Punjabi-speaking individuals were being ignored, was significant. Achieving a Ph.D. level was neither the first nor the only goal. If someone is trying to demean me, then I'll register and fight against it. Like the renowned poet Munir Niazi, I too achieved a Ph.D. where every poem matched the entirety of another renowned poet's work. Just as a bird has the passion to sing, some cities have the zeal of their own. There are stories, pains, and joys in various forms. Like this, there are a couple more poems that I would recite. I've never shed tears, nor have I ever looked back. I never stopped, never looked back; just kept moving forward. And despite all the challenges and hardships, one should persevere.

If you fail in your class, among your peers, or even within your country, if you're at risk, no one accepts you. I mean, those who give such judgments are themselves disconnected from one another. The beauty of a city is like a beautiful lion among urban and rural areas; while the city continues to grow and expand, the essence of the city remains. Cities might be close in proximity, but they remain distant from each other because of their individual boundaries and walls. The entire poem resonated with my thoughts at this moment. Beyond just achieving a Ph.D. in Punjabi, I funded it myself. That's my achievement. I have written seven or eight books, focusing on Punjabi poetry, Punjabi research, and columns in Punjabi newspapers. Within them, I've included Punjabi stories, short stories, Shah Mukhi, and Gurumukhi scripts. Maybe I need to sit and understand these works, even if I have to teach them.

And wherever people are earning their livelihood using the Punjabi language, they should not criticize others for their styles or methods. Instead, they should focus on their work and its promotion. Apart from that, my affection has not diminished to this day. Whether it's Urdu, Punjabi, or English, they are all equal to me. I believe my honor lies in the roots of Punjabi language. Regarding the Punjabi rail gauge and language, it's essential to promote any language. For the arts, both music and literature are essential. If there is no literature, there won't be any creative work, and the language will die. Google's statement that the media center

has

become a forgotten thing is incorrect. It will spread, but I understand that without the creative work of the language, literature won't exist. Without the language, there won't be songs, no ghazals, no media, and no speakers or listeners. If there are no askers or understanders, then the language will perish. Just like an Urdu writer, especially a poet, can say that only words remain, others may not understand without any reference. Nasir Kazmi said something about the radio… Munir Naji and others have sung many songs on TV. Faiz's poetry has also been popular on TV. Malka Nam, as well as other countless poets, whose songs, ghazals, poetry, naats, and hamds have not been sung by the media, are alive in their own right. Some became more popular, while others remained.

I will be remembered someday; after six years, someone will surely say, 'What's the matter with Shahida Shah Dilawar? They are lesser known.' Let me tell you, I am the only researcher who has worked on this. If anyone else has done it, it must be Mujeeb Ahmad. Majid Amjad was such a poet who didn't gain popularity in mainstream media. If his songs or ghazals were sung, they didn't receive the recognition they deserved. Today's era is all about media and the internet. If someone isn't on social media, they will be left behind; they won't be heard or seen. My opinion is that many poets of the past and present may go unnoticed unless people actively search for them. Madam, while you can speak Punjabi, the colloquial language has evolved significantly.

The vocabulary has changed, and if one doesn't understand the current jargon, it becomes difficult to converse. My Punjabi language is good, but I struggle with this new trend. The children of today, those who are 19 or so, might also face this challenge. You might belong to a different generation, and perhaps you are from the next generation. My request is, please don't mock Punjabi. If those who understand it aren't present, it doesn't mean you shouldn't register its importance. Instead of ridiculing each other's languages, promote them. Whether it's Punjabi or English, one should try to understand each other's dialects. If a simple language is not valued, if you are not sincere about preserving it, then that language will die out. If you wish to keep it alive,

don't let it vanish. The language that has roots will not be able to move forward without them. If there is no one who understands, if there is no interest in writing, then in this matter, no language is more important than the common spoken language. Madam, there seems to be no connection to the Punjabi language in newspapers or among Punjabi people. However, the latest work by the Punjabi Literary Board is commendable. The Punjabi people have shown significant enthusiasm for recent works by the Punjabi Literary Board. They have done a good job, even though they might lack funding from the government. There might be a few employees like Chand, but nevertheless, they have done commendable work. The roots of the language are reviving, and many people are starting to show interest.

And no one knows. In today's era, it's evident that everyone is facing challenges. Some have continued despite their struggles, while others couldn't continue due to lack of funding. I remember starting a newspaper where I also began writing. As I wrote, it became known, and the circulation grew significantly. The news spread like wildfire in many areas. However, there were challenges everywhere. Let's say, after leaving Lahore, one might go to another city like Shahdara. There, Jaya Shahd, made a significant mistake. After a year or two, he shut down that branch. But that decision affected many villages.

Neither writing nor literature is associated with Punjabi literature anymore. The passion for it has decreased significantly due to intense competition. People used to write extensively, and I believe my writings were of good quality. However, they didn't continue. There was one initial issue with a piece I wrote, which didn't run for long. Additionally, Iqbal Bhatt Sahab, a significant figure in Punjabi literature, decided to shut down the newspaper. I tried another newspaper, but it didn't take off. Even though I've consistently written well, funding remains a major issue. I request the government not to ban such advertisements. If you don't allow such advertisements, how will I manage my expenses? Three or four years ago, I was passionate about my work, but now there are ongoing issues. The problem is with Punjabi language, Punjabi literature, or phrases.

I especially like all of my phrases because I write short stories. Every book of mine hasn't been appreciated or accepted by publishers. Only two or three of my books have been published here. If there's any government printing, there's also non-governmental. Writers have a big responsibility. No one is willing to provide assistance or publish my book for free. Regardless, the quality of my book is undeniable. Masood Khad Trust in Punjabi has done significant work. The Masood Khad Trust has also recognized and published my book. Who published my second book? It has its own merit, but the book that was published was just a copy. My third book has been published by them.

They gave me a plaque, and the government also gave some money, which is with me. The main issue is with the big publishers. I had my PhD thesis too. This means they own all my books and the language. Because I feel that in today's era, my representation is not proper. I also have a challenge here. Understand that my mistake is that I am not representing my era. Look, in the past, they made a big name for themselves, but I read their work and I have learned from it. Be warned, if I write, I write in my own language, my own slang, my own style. I mean, what will happen in today's era? What will you do? In today's era, where will you find it? I have faith in today's language, and this language is my root. It's my favorite language, deeply rooted in me. Whether you hear my discussions

or see my books or any platform where I talk about myself, I speak in this language. And if you're happy or upset, then you'll be in that same situation. How will you make it? You're being emotional, but you know that time is limited, and within conversation, you also have to summarize everything. My experience is that it's good to be sharp. If you talk with great emotion, you might note one of my things, but don't take it personally. If we ever meet again, listen to my question. If you see a bit of happiness on my face, then it's because my happiness is that my language is being promoted. Today, I feel proud and satisfied.

I keep writing like this, and I take great pride in this. Whether I write or read Punjabi, it doesn't matter if someone benefits or not. I don't care if people don't appreciate this. No one will call me for an interview. Even if they do, I won't have the time. But I'm not falling behind, Madam. People should be able to speak Punjabi in front of everyone. So, when you say it, I mean that no one cares about it. Whether I'm on a media platform or not, or whether I'm on any media center, it's just my emotional attachment to this language. My sadness is that the language is not given its due importance. We have grown up with this language, and if it's understood and recognized, it's due to our efforts. So, it hurts a little.

I wish it were given the importance it deserves. Why don't they understand? You pursue your hobbies, and love is a mutual feeling. Life is passing by, and the worries you express are in the Punjabi language. If you are happy, you know it, and if you are sad, you express it. However, using derogatory words in Punjabi out of anger is not right. When we say Punjabi, it refers to the land of Punjab, be it in India or Pakistan, whether it's Balochistan or any other region. Indeed, they have great respect and manners, but when they get angry, they react just like us. Just as happiness and other emotions are expressed differently in various social gatherings,

many traditions, especially songs and rhythms, are disappearing. That's the situation. It's alright if they have moved on; they have their own perspectives and progress. However, neither I nor you have the same kind of enthusiasm or vision for progress. Even if something minor is felt or realized, it should be acknowledged. Only the heart can do that, no one else. Whether I purchase or write a book, there's always a benefit or loss attached to it. So, whatever you hold dear, the owner is content. By the way, Madam, can you tell me any famous verses or lines that you like, whether they are famous or not? If not, I can search for some. Many people have seen my videos and programs,

but as time passes, just a few Punjabi verses… Listen, my friend, the universe demands that I share some verses with you. Firstly, be cautious of deceit and flattery, my friend. Beware of the allure of falsehood, my friend. Don't let my gaze fall upon you, neither the world nor the music. Don't let my gaze be cast upon you, neither the world nor the allure. Today, the competition is tough, and my honor is at stake, my friend. Thank you very much. Okay, the interview is complete, Madam, Thank you so much. It was great fun. May God bless you. Madam everyone passed. I have 21 sections, and not a single student failed in any of the 21 sections. All of them passed with flying colors. 77 is a record; out of 77 students, none failed. It doesn't mean that they were all from high-class backgrounds, but these 77 students passed the board intermediate exams. It shows the effort they put in, and there were no difficulties for them. Going to F.C college. After school, there are no issues related to culture. If you talk about F.C. College, it is not influenced by any particular culture; there are no concerns, no biases. Look, culture is what makes a person; if a person doesn't adopt their culture, it's their loss. Whether Come and bring forth good things. It's as simple as in Punjab and Lahore; the staff understands the indications and signals. Actually, the entire world follows trends. If a part of that world changes, then it's essential for humans to adapt to that change. For instance, if a graveyard becomes a place for cremation, and if that change brings about something good, every religion should accept and adopt it. Regarding the Punjabi language, remember the past incidents. Some things have surfaced, and I have responded. Place good milestones and benchmarks. Strive to take feedback from your institution's students and staff about the quality of the place. It's about their livelihood, linked to business, especially if it's related to English. They might have been linked to Punjabi if something has been lacking in that aspect. Look, if someone has mastered Punjabi or has a B.Sc. degree in it, where will they go to find a job? Because today, bringing home a livelihood is crucial. Especially for third-world countries, it's a challenge. Another question is, what latest initiatives have you taken for the Punjabi language? You see, I have dedicated my life to Punjabi. Punjabi has always been my strong foundation. I have always cherished and held onto this language closely. I have never degraded its importance, and neither has the subject ever let me down. Look, when you consider F.C. College, it's a renowned institution in Asia, with a vast media center. Shahab was a brilliant student, and perhaps, he called me today because of my proficiency in Punjabi. If I could converse in Punjabi, maybe you wouldn't have even had the opportunity to speak at the media center. And by speaking Punjabi, I might have achieved something, be it a job or some recognition. Even if I completed a high-level degree in Punjabi, I never sought any credit for it. or the effort to uphold Punjabi values, even when Punjabi-speaking individuals were being ignored, was significant. Achieving a Ph.D. level was neither the first nor the only goal. If someone is trying to demean me, then I'll register and fight against it. Like the renowned poet Munir Niazi, I too achieved a Ph.D. where every poem matched the entirety of another renowned poet's work. Just as a bird has the passion to sing, some cities have the zeal of their own. There are stories, pains, and joys in various forms. Like this, there are a couple more poems that I would recite. I've never shed tears, nor have I ever looked back. I never stopped, never looked back; just kept moving forward. And despite all the challenges and hardships, one should persevere. If you fail in your class, among your peers, or even within your country, if you're at risk, no one accepts you. I mean, those who give such judgments are themselves disconnected from one another. The beauty of a city is like a beautiful lion among urban and rural areas; while the city continues to grow and expand, the essence of the city remains. Cities might be close in proximity, but they remain distant from each other because of their individual boundaries and walls. The entire poem resonated with my thoughts at this moment. Beyond just achieving a Ph.D. in Punjabi, I funded it myself. That's my achievement. I have written seven or eight books, focusing on Punjabi poetry, Punjabi research, and columns in Punjabi newspapers. Within them, I've included Punjabi stories, short stories, Shah Mukhi, and Gurumukhi scripts. Maybe I need to sit and understand these works, even if I have to teach them. And wherever people are earning their livelihood using the Punjabi language, they should not criticize others for their styles or methods. Instead, they should focus on their work and its promotion. Apart from that, my affection has not diminished to this day. Whether it's Urdu, Punjabi, or English, they are all equal to me. I believe my honor lies in the roots of Punjabi language. Regarding the Punjabi rail gauge and language, it's essential to promote any language. For the arts, both music and literature are essential. If there is no literature, there won't be any creative work, and the language will die. Google's statement that the media center has become a forgotten thing is incorrect. It will spread, but I understand that without the creative work of the language, literature won't exist. Without the language, there won't be songs, no ghazals, no media, and no speakers or listeners. If there are no askers or understanders, then the language will perish. Just like an Urdu writer, especially a poet, can say that only words remain, others may not understand without any reference. Nasir Kazmi said something about the radio… Munir Naji and others have sung many songs on TV. Faiz's poetry has also been popular on TV. Malka Nam, as well as other countless poets, whose songs, ghazals, poetry, naats, and hamds have not been sung by the media, are alive in their own right. Some became more popular, while others remained. I will be remembered someday; after six years, someone will surely say, 'What's the matter with Shab or Dilawar? They are lesser known.' Let me tell you, I am the only researcher who has worked on this. If anyone else has done it, it must be Mujeeb Ahmad. Majid Amjad was such a poet who didn't gain popularity in mainstream media. If his songs or ghazals were sung, they didn't receive the recognition they deserved. Today's era is all about media and the internet. If someone isn't on social media, they will be left behind; they won't be heard or seen. My opinion is that many poets of the past and present may go unnoticed unless people actively search for them. Madam, while you can speak Punjabi, the colloquial language has evolved significantly. The vocabulary has changed, and if one doesn't understand the current jargon, it becomes difficult to converse. My Punjabi language is good, but I struggle with this new trend. The children of today, those who are 19 or so, might also face this challenge. You might belong to a different generation, and perhaps you are from the next generation. My request is, please don't mock Punjabi. If those who understand it aren't present, it doesn't mean you shouldn't register its importance. Instead of ridiculing each other's languages, promote them. Whether it's Punjabi or English, one should try to understand each other's dialects. If a simple language is not valued, if you are not sincere about preserving it, then that language will die out. If you wish to keep it alive, don't let it vanish. The language that has roots will not be able to move forward without them. If there is no one who understands, if there is no interest in writing, then in this matter, no language is more important than the common spoken language. Madam, there seems to be no connection to the Punjabi language in newspapers or among Punjabi people. However, the latest work by the Punjabi Literary Board is commendable. The Punjabi people have shown significant enthusiasm for recent works by the Punjabi Literary Board. They have done a good job, even though they might lack funding from the government. There might be a few employees like Chand, but nevertheless, they have done commendable work. The roots of the language are reviving, and many people are starting to show interest. And no one knows. In today's era, it's evident that everyone is facing challenges. Some have continued despite their struggles, while others couldn't continue due to lack of funding. I remember starting a newspaper where I also began writing. As I wrote, it became known, and the circulation grew significantly. The news spread like wildfire in many areas. However, there were challenges everywhere. Let's say, after leaving Lahore, one might go to another city like Shahdara. There, Jaya Shahd, made a significant mistake. After a year or two, he shut down that branch. But that decision affected many villages. Neither writing nor literature is associated with Punjabi literature anymore. The passion for it has decreased significantly due to intense competition. People used to write extensively, and I believe my writings were of good quality. However, they didn't continue. There was one initial issue with a piece I wrote, which didn't run for long. Additionally, Iqbal Bhatt Sahab, a significant figure in Punjabi literature, decided to shut down the newspaper. I tried another newspaper, but it didn't take off. Even though I've consistently written well, funding remains a major issue. I request the government not to ban such advertisements. If you don't allow such advertisements, how will I manage my expenses? Three or four years ago, I was passionate about my work, but now there are ongoing issues. The problem is with Punjabi language, Punjabi literature, or phrases. I especially like all of my phrases because I write short stories. Every book of mine hasn't been appreciated or accepted by publishers. Only two or three of my books have been published here. If there's any government printing, there's also non-governmental. Writers have a big responsibility. No one is willing to provide assistance or publish my book for free. Regardless, the quality of my book is undeniable. Masood Khad Trust in Punjabi has done significant work. The Masood Khad Trust has also recognized and published my book. Who published my second book? It has its own merit, but the book that was published was just a copy. My third book has been published by them. They gave me a plaque, and the government also gave some money, which is with me. The main issue is with the big publishers. I had my PhD thesis too. This means they own all my books and the language. Because I feel that in today's era, my representation is not proper. I also have a challenge here. Understand that my mistake is that I am not representing my era. Look, in the past, they made a big name for themselves, but I read their work and I have learned from it. Be warned, if I write, I write in my own language, my own slang, my own style. I mean, what will happen in today's era? What will you do? In today's era, where will you find it? I have faith in today's language, and this language is my root. It's my favorite language, deeply rooted in me. Whether you hear my discussions or see my books or any platform where I talk about myself, I speak in this language. And if you're happy or upset, then you'll be in that same situation. How will you make it? You're being emotional, but you know that time is limited, and within conversation, you also have to summarize everything. My experience is that it's good to be sharp. If you talk with great emotion, you might note one of my things, but don't take it personally. If we ever meet again, listen to my question. If you see a bit of happiness on my face, then it's because my happiness is that my language is being promoted. Today, I feel proud and satisfied. I keep writing like this, and I take great pride in this. Whether I write or read Punjabi, it doesn't matter if someone benefits or not. I don't care if people don't appreciate this. No one will call me for an interview. Even if they do, I won't have the time. But I'm not falling behind, Madam. People should be able to speak Punjabi in front of everyone. So, when you say it, I mean that no one cares about it. Whether I'm on a media platform or not, or whether I'm on any media center, it's just my emotional attachment to this language. My sadness is that the language is not given its due importance. We have grown up with this language, and if it's understood and recognized, it's due to our efforts. So, it hurts a little. I wish it were given the importance it deserves. Why don't they understand? You pursue your hobbies, and love is a mutual feeling. Life is passing by, and the worries you express are in the Punjabi language. If you are happy, you know it, and if you are sad, you express it. However, using derogatory words in Punjabi out of anger is not right. When we say Punjabi, it refers to the land of Punjab, be it in India or Pakistan, whether it's Balochistan or any other region. Indeed, they have great respect and manners, but when they get angry, they react just like us. Just as happiness and other emotions are expressed differently in various social gatherings, many traditions, especially songs and rhythms, are disappearing. That's the situation. It's alright if they have moved on; they have their own perspectives and progress. However, neither I nor you have the same kind of enthusiasm or vision for progress. Even if something minor is felt or realized, it should be acknowledged. Only the heart can do that, no one else. Whether I purchase or write a book, there's always a benefit or loss attached to it. So, whatever you hold dear, the owner is content. By the way, Madam, can you tell me any famous verses or lines that you like, whether they are famous or not? If not, I can search for some. Many people have seen my videos and programs, but as time passes, just a few Punjabi verses… Listen, my friend, the universe demands that I share some verses with you. Firstly, be cautious of deceit and flattery, my friend. Beware of the allure of falsehood, my friend. Don't let my gaze fall upon you, neither the world nor the music. Don't let my gaze be cast upon you, neither the world nor the allure. Today, the competition is tough, and my honor is at stake, my friend. Thank you very much. Okay, the interview is complete, Madam, Thank you so much. It was great fun. May God bless you.

“Interview Transcription: Shahzaib Gulzar with Dr. Shahida Dilawar Shah”

[ - ]

Hello, my name is Shahzaib Gulzar, an undergraduate student. The topic of this video is Language Documentation. In this video, I am going to conduct an interview with a Punjabi speaker who uses Punjabi as her native language. For this purpose, we have a very famous personality of FCCU, Dr. Shahida Dilawar Shah, with us.

Interviewer: Assalam-o-Allaikum Madam!

Interviewee: Waallaikum-u-salam

Interviewer: how are you madam?

Interviewee: I am good! How about you? Is everything okay?

Interviewer: Ya! Alhamdulillah! Everything is fine Madam! Madam, can you introduce yourself to the viewers?

Interviewee: Why not! Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem! My name is Dr. Shahida Dilawar Shah and

[ - ]

I have done 3, 4 in fact 5 M.As, M.A Urdu, M.A Islamiat, M.A Punjabi, M.A Education and M.A Political Science. I wanted to become a barrister, but my inclination towards literature began, and I got involved in various activities like storytelling and more. Both areas of my career and my passion for literary activities were strong. Both were divine works, and both progressed simultaneously. In other words, my family had no issues because they thought I wouldn't neglect my studies. I didn't achieve much, but I've been genetically inclined towards literature. Understand that apart from studying, I've always continued with my work and literary activities.

[ - ]

When the program started, you initially asked about literature. I responded that I wanted to become a barrister. For that reason, I pursued an MA in Political Science. I had secured a lecturer's appointment at Punjab University, but after that, they kept delaying for about a year. They told me that the Government of Punjab hadn't given them the go-ahead. So, they asked me to wait for some time. Meanwhile, I got another job, and my subject was Urdu. I kept competing and working hard. It's said that if someone has the will, they find a way. Alongside, I continued with both storytelling and poetry, in both Punjabi and Urdu.

[ - ]

I continued with storytelling and poetry. People started inviting me, and I began to write and recite my compositions. My interest grew. My parents didn't support my endeavors initially, but with the grace of the Almighty, I managed to fulfill my financial needs. Eventually, I left my studies midway and started writing. Initially, I began with short pieces. I then started contributing to newspapers. There was a time when I used to write a single page, and that too about old times. My passion grew, and I began writing more stories. When I joined FC College, it was a significant step for me. FC College provided me with immense support, even though I hail from Punjab.

[ - ]

I returned to the university, either GC University. The cycle continued, and by the time I reached around the 12th to 16th book, I completed my Master's degree. I started working alongside my studies. As time passed, I began giving exams. With prayers and blessings, my creative works, including my books, poetry, stories, novels, and research books, were published. I felt immense pleasure in writing all these books, and I believe it's a blessing from the Almighty. With the recognition and awards I received, I felt that the government had given me as much as I deserved.

[ - ]

Someone once said to me, 'Know your worth, lion.' In 2015, I was honored with a literary award for my book. The prize money was awarded, and the award itself was a great honor. For the first time, in 2015, by the grace of Allah, my book was recognized and received a first-place position among many. There's only one first place. The journey continues, and a novel of mine from 2023 is set to be released in 2024. I've started working on a new novel with a publishing house. The proofreading and other processes are underway, and God willing, it will be released in 2024. I've written various fictional stories, short stories, and micro-fiction pieces. However, these days…

[ - ]

There is an international trend nowadays where people prefer shorter novels. Thus, my traditional long stories are not as popular. Nowadays, the international standard is such that within one novel, there are multiple stories running in parallel. They address various issues, both within society and beyond. When it comes to Shahmukhi (Punjabi script), at the end of the introduction, I would certainly mention that I have connections with India as well. Especially with Gurumukhi script. Gurumukhi is the script that Punjabi is written in. Although some people recognize Gurumukhi, many do not. But when I started writing, the ink began to flow…

[ - ]

I also need to wield the pen. I have written all the letters in Urdu. However, there is a constant war nowadays, meaning the battle of articles in newspapers. I don't have time for my literary life. You all are doing various tasks; some write about societal challenges, events, etc. But my focus is mostly on literary articles. My journey began with Punjabi and Urdu. My struggle with Urdu started when I began writing. Although the struggle with Urdu was less, my first book was in Urdu. My Punjabi book was published in 2005. This was the beginning, and as the journey continued, Urdu became more special to me, especially in novels.

[ - ]

Both languages have their significance for me. While I may be more involved with Urdu, I have not abandoned Punjabi. You cannot gauge my attachment or affection for Punjabi based on how frequently you call me after so many years. I still write for 'Ajit Weekly', and that too in Gurmukhi, spanning from British Columbia to California, New York, the UK, and beyond. Life and its commitments mean I don't write Urdu or any other language continuously. When the muse strikes, I pick up the pen. Time may be limited, but my dedication to both languages continues. While Punjabi remains close to my heart, Urdu is not just a national language; it's more.

[ - ]

Urdu and Punjabi are branches, Gurmukhi is another, and although I know Persian to some extent, English is the only language that is essential for communication. Beyond that, I have four languages: Punjabi, Urdu, Persian, and English. My language is alive; it speaks. I value my mother tongue [music], speak Urdu, and can converse in Punjabi. My schooling had minimal English. I started with English classes later, but the foundational knowledge began at home. As I attended classes, my focus shifted, but before diving deep into English, there was the essence of childhood.

[ - ]

Primary education started in English. Urdu was somewhat there, but it wasn't dominant. Punjabi wasn't there at all. The entire culture of Punjab, all education, is in English. Questions are asked in English, not in Punjabi or Urdu. Both these languages were present but not dominant. However, English is essential. It's a journey that I've never found difficult. Communicating in English, understanding it, and speaking it are all easy. Wherever I go, be it a country, a province, a city, or a place to live, English is present. It's become a part of life. It's rare to find someone who can't at least understand English, even if not fluently. Personally, I've never faced any difficulty. If you speak Urdu, I can converse in that too, Madam

[ - ]

When you visit from U.P.S.C., and if you speak in English, does it mean, 'Madam, your subject is English?' What I mean is, if you have designed it this way and it becomes a part of life, adopting languages joyfully, then there's no difficulty. It's neither hard for me to speak in Punjabi nor in Urdu. It's been so many years since I've been teaching Urdu, and it doesn't bother me. This year too, my result was 100%, meaning everyone passed. I have 21 sections, and not a single student failed in any of the 21 sections. All of them passed with flying colors.

[ - ]

77 is a record; out of 77 students, none failed. It doesn't mean that they were all from high-class backgrounds, but these 77 students passed the board intermediate exams. It shows the effort they put in, and there were no difficulties for them. Going to F.C college. After school, there are no issues related to culture. If you talk about F.C. College, it is not influenced by any particular culture; there are no concerns, no biases. Look, culture is what makes a person; if a person doesn't adopt their culture, it's their loss. Whether it's the staff or the American Vice Rector, you can speak in Urdu or Punjabi. Speaking Punjabi doesn't mean you're not adhering to culture; it's about embracing one's own culture.

[ - ]

Come and bring forth good things. It's as simple as in Punjab and Lahore; the staff understands the indications and signals. Actually, the entire world follows trends. If a part of that world changes, then it's essential for humans to adapt to that change. For instance, if a graveyard becomes a place for cremation, and if that change brings about something good, every religion should accept and adopt it. Regarding the Punjabi language, remember the past incidents. Some things have surfaced, and I have responded. When you were at F.C. College, you had mentioned some Punjabi issues. Now, everyone there, both staff and students, needs to focus on who they are and what their role is.

[ - ]

Place good milestones and benchmarks. Strive to take feedback from your institution's students and staff about the quality of the place. It's about their livelihood, linked to business, especially if it's related to English. They might have been linked to Punjabi if something has been lacking in that aspect. Look, if someone has mastered Punjabi or has a B.Sc. degree in it, where will they go to find a job? Because today, bringing home a livelihood is crucial. Especially for third-world countries, it's a challenge. Another question is, what latest initiatives have you taken for the Punjabi language? You see, I have dedicated my life to Punjabi.

[ - ]

Punjabi has always been my strong foundation. I have always cherished and held onto this language closely. I have never degraded its importance, and neither has the subject ever let me down. Look, when you consider F.C. College, it's a renowned institution in Asia, with a vast media center. Shahab was a brilliant student, and perhaps, he called me today because of my proficiency in Punjabi. If I could converse in Punjabi, maybe you wouldn't have even had the opportunity to speak at the media center. And by speaking Punjabi, I might have achieved something, be it a job or some recognition. Even if I completed a high-level degree in Punjabi, I never sought any credit for it.

[ - ]

There might not be any financial benefit, but it's a passion. The pride I feel in speaking Punjabi or the effort to uphold Punjabi values, even when Punjabi-speaking individuals were being ignored, was significant. Achieving a Ph.D. level was neither the first nor the only goal. If someone is trying to demean me, then I'll register and fight against it. Like the renowned poet Munir Niazi, I too achieved a Ph.D. where every poem matched the entirety of another renowned poet's work. Just as a bird has the passion to sing, some cities have the zeal of their own. There are stories, pains, and joys in various forms. Like this, there are a couple more poems that I would recite. I've never shed tears, nor have I ever looked back.

[ - ]

I never stopped, never looked back; just kept moving forward. And despite all the challenges and hardships, one should persevere. If you fail in your class, among your peers, or even within your country, if you're at risk, no one accepts you. I mean, those who give such judgments are themselves disconnected from one another. The beauty of a city is like a beautiful lion among urban and rural areas; while the city continues to grow and expand, the essence of the city remains. Cities might be close in proximity, but they remain distant from each other because of their individual boundaries and walls. The entire poem resonated with my thoughts at this moment. Beyond just achieving a Ph.D. in Punjabi, I funded it myself. That's my achievement.

[ - ]

I have written seven or eight books, focusing on Punjabi poetry, Punjabi research, and columns in Punjabi newspapers. Within them, I've included Punjabi stories, short stories, Shah Mukhi, and Gurumukhi scripts. Maybe I need to sit and understand these works, even if I have to teach them. And wherever people are earning their livelihood using the Punjabi language, they should not criticize others for their styles or methods. Instead, they should focus on their work and its promotion. Apart from that, my affection has not diminished to this day. Whether it's Urdu, Punjabi, or English, they are all equal to me. I believe my honor lies in the roots of Punjabi language. Regarding the Punjabi rail gauge and language, it's essential to promote any language.

[ - ]

For the arts, both music and literature are essential. If there is no literature, there won't be any creative work, and the language will die. Google's statement that the media center has become a forgotten thing is incorrect. It will spread, but I understand that without the creative work of the language, literature won't exist. Without the language, there won't be songs, no ghazals, no media, and no speakers or listeners. If there are no askers or understanders, then the language will perish. Just like an Urdu writer, especially a poet, can say that only words remain, others may not understand without any reference. Nasir Kazmi said something about the radio…

[ - ]

Munir Naji and others have sung many songs on TV. Faiz's poetry has also been popular on TV. Malka Nam, as well as other countless poets, whose songs, ghazals, poetry, naats, and hamds have not been sung by the media, are alive in their own right. Some became more popular, while others remained. I will be remembered someday; after six years, someone will surely say, 'What's the matter with Shab or Dilawar? They are lesser known.' Let me tell you, I am the only researcher who has worked on this. If anyone else has done it, it must be Mujeeb Ahmad.

Majid Amjad was such a poet who didn't gain popularity in mainstream media. If his songs or ghazals were sung, they didn't receive the recognition they deserved. Today's era is all about media and the internet. If someone isn't on social media, they will be left behind; they won't be heard or seen. My opinion is that many poets of the past and present may go unnoticed unless people actively search for them. Madam, while you can speak Punjabi, the colloquial language has evolved significantly. The vocabulary has changed, and if one doesn't understand the current jargon, it becomes difficult to converse. My Punjabi language is good, but I struggle with this new trend. The children of today, those who are 19 or so, might also face this challenge.

[ -19-20]

You might belong to a different generation, and perhaps you are from the next generation. My request is, please don't mock Punjabi. If those who understand it aren't present, it doesn't mean you shouldn't register its importance. Instead of ridiculing each other's languages, promote them. Whether it's Punjabi or English, one should try to understand each other's dialects. If a simple language is not valued, if you are not sincere about preserving it, then that language will die out. If you wish to keep it alive, don't let it vanish. The language that has roots will not be able to move forward without them.

[ - ]

If there is no one who understands, if there is no interest in writing, then in this matter, no language is more important than the common spoken language. Madam, there seems to be no connection to the Punjabi language in newspapers or among Punjabi people. However, the latest work by the Punjabi Literary Board is commendable. The Punjabi people have shown significant enthusiasm for recent works by the Punjabi Literary Board. They have done a good job, even though they might lack funding from the government. There might be a few employees like Chand, but nevertheless, they have done commendable work. The roots of the language are reviving, and many people are starting to show interest.

[ -21-58]

And no one knows. In today's era, it's evident that everyone is facing challenges. Some have continued despite their struggles, while others couldn't continue due to lack of funding. I remember starting a newspaper where I also began writing. As I wrote, it became known, and the circulation grew significantly. The news spread like wildfire in many areas. However, there were challenges everywhere. Let's say, after leaving Lahore, one might go to another city like Shahdara. There, Jaya Shahd, made a significant mistake. After a year or two, he shut down that branch. But that decision affected many villages.

[ - ]

Neither writing nor literature is associated with Punjabi literature anymore. The passion for it has decreased significantly due to intense competition. People used to write extensively, and I believe my writings were of good quality. However, they didn't continue. There was one initial issue with a piece I wrote, which didn't run for long. Additionally, Iqbal Bhatt Sahab, a significant figure in Punjabi literature, decided to shut down the newspaper. I tried another newspaper, but it didn't take off. Even though I've consistently written well, funding remains a major issue. I request the government not to ban such advertisements. If you don't allow such advertisements, how will I manage my expenses?

[ - ]

Three or four years ago, I was passionate about my work, but now there are ongoing issues. The problem is with Punjabi language, Punjabi literature, or phrases. I especially like all of my phrases because I write short stories. Every book of mine hasn't been appreciated or accepted by publishers. Only two or three of my books have been published here. If there's any government printing, there's also non-governmental. Writers have a big responsibility. No one is willing to provide assistance or publish my book for free. Regardless, the quality of my book is undeniable. Masood Khad Trust in Punjabi has done significant work. The Masood Khad Trust has also recognized and published my book.

[ - ]

Who published my second book? It has its own merit, but the book that was published was just a copy. My third book has been published by them. They gave me a plaque, and the government also gave some money, which is with me. The main issue is with the big publishers. I had my PhD thesis too. This means they own all my books and the language. Because I feel that in today's era, my representation is not proper. I also have a challenge here. Understand that my mistake is that I am not representing my era. Look, in the past, they made a big name for themselves, but I read their work and I have learned from it.

[ - ]

Be warned, if I write, I write in my own language, my own slang, my own style. I mean, what will happen in today's era? What will you do? In today's era, where will you find it? I have faith in today's language, and this language is my root. It's my favorite language, deeply rooted in me. Whether you hear my discussions or see my books or any platform where I talk about myself, I speak in this language. And if you're happy or upset, then you'll be in that same situation.

[ - ]

How will you make it? You're being emotional, but you know that time is limited, and within conversation, you also have to summarize everything. My experience is that it's good to be sharp. If you talk with great emotion, you might note one of my things, but don't take it personally. If we ever meet again, listen to my question. If you see a bit of happiness on my face, then it's because my happiness is that my language is being promoted. Today, I feel proud and satisfied. I keep writing like this, and I take great pride in this. Whether I write or read Punjabi, it doesn't matter if someone benefits or not.

[ - ]

I don't care if people don't appreciate this. No one will call me for an interview. Even if they do, I won't have the time. But I'm not falling behind, Madam. People should be able to speak Punjabi in front of everyone. So, when you say it, I mean that no one cares about it. Whether I'm on a media platform or not, or whether I'm on any media center, it's just my emotional attachment to this language. My sadness is that the language is not given its due importance. We have grown up with this language, and if it's understood and recognized, it's due to our efforts. So, it hurts a little. I wish it were given the importance it deserves. Why don't they understand?

[ - ]

You pursue your hobbies, and love is a mutual feeling. Life is passing by, and the worries you express are in the Punjabi language. If you are happy, you know it, and if you are sad, you express it. However, using derogatory words in Punjabi out of anger is not right. When we say Punjabi, it refers to the land of Punjab, be it in India or Pakistan, whether it's Balochistan or any other region. Indeed, they have great respect and manners, but when they get angry, they react just like us. Just as happiness and other emotions are expressed differently in various social gatherings, many traditions, especially songs and rhythms, are disappearing. That's the situation.

[ - ]

It's alright if they have moved on; they have their own perspectives and progress. However, neither I nor you have the same kind of enthusiasm or vision for progress. Even if something minor is felt or realized, it should be acknowledged. Only the heart can do that, no one else. Whether I purchase or write a book, there's always a benefit or loss attached to it. So, whatever you hold dear, the owner is content. By the way, Madam, can you tell me any famous verses or lines that you like, whether they are famous or not? If not, I can search for some. Many people have seen my videos and programs, but as time passes, just a few Punjabi verses…

[ - ]

Listen, my friend, the universe demands that I share some verses with you. Firstly, be cautious of deceit and flattery, my friend. Beware of the allure of falsehood, my friend. Don't let my gaze fall upon you, neither the world nor the music. Don't let my gaze be cast upon you, neither the world nor the allure. Today, the competition is tough, and my honor is at stake, my friend. Thank you very much. Okay, the interview is complete, Madam, Thank you so much. It was great fun. May God bless you.